Is 'Hardcore Sex' Coupled With 'Violence' Illegal???

[Peter]

...I have no respect whatsoever for those who preach self-censorship...

So for us to earn your respect, we should throw all caution to the wind, say "Fuck You" loudly to the rest of the world, and create the most utterly vile scenes we can possibly imagine, all for the edification of you, our glorious consumer who otherwise has no respect for us. And then after making a handful of such videos, and we are hauled off to do serious hard time in prison for our efforts, you the great consumer, who frankly won't give a flying fuck, will find someone else stupid enough to create whatever it is you demand.

And no, I'm not exaggerating the danger. Dr. Don on this thread has been utterly ruined by years of prosecution for doing material you would find tame. If he hadn't had the resources to pay for defense or insane six figure fines, he would be doing serious time. And that is for creating scenes FAR less heinous than what you would demand from us. You dare call 'us' holier-than-thou, and yet it is you who frankly put yourself on such a pedestal, that you demand that we sacrifice our very freedom for the sake of your desires. And if we do not, you have no respect for us.

F%@k you and your respect.

[Dr Don]

Peter:

You said it far better than I could.

That's precisely why I sense a problem with this poster. Obsessions distort one's perception of reality.

[Bluestone]

Time for me to step in for a moment, just to offer some comments on the several foregoing posts. I see that tempers are running a little high, which is understandable taking into account the serious issues being discussed; however, I think we've all got to keep some important principles in mind:

1. We must respect each others' opinions, whether we agree with them or not. I specifically asked for consumers to post, and GraveDancer accommodated me by stating his opinion and providing his feedback. When a poster does so, I don't think it's appropriate to attack him; although, we can disagree with his opinions;

2. I agree that those with our fetishes should be very careful labeling one fetish as sicker than our own. Now, I don't personally get off on having sexual relations with a dead women, but I absolutely love to see Petra and Suzi strangled or shot to death, especially using their spectacular breasts for target practice. Can I really say that GraveDancer is any sicker than I? I don't think so. I thought it was those without sin who got to throw the first stone.

It is nice to see Dr. Don post here, since he's not on the boards often these days as a result of his on-going legal battles. Thanks for your contributions to this thread, Don.

It is unfortunate that everybody on this thread doesn't get along, but I truly believe that we all have more in common with one another than with any other group on the planet. So, I encourage everyone to try to keep the brawling to a minimum

Blue

[Dalila di Capri]

Boys this is Christmas Eve,

That may not mean something to all of you but it does mean something to me.

Let's try to keep our tempers.

What I do in my films is completely fantasy and very far fetched.

Those who have either met me in person or filmed with me know that I am very small and fined boned.

Yet there I am kicking down doors like a Gangster-Amazon in many of my films.

Pure fantasy.

I am not at all into Grave Dancer's fantasy, and I would be an unlikely actress to do that kind of film for him.

It seems to me however that his fantasy could be a natural transition for someone like Evangeline, who already does sleepy and would perhaps be intersted in depicting this kind of scene.

I am not going to judge Grave Dancer, but I also have to put limits as to what I would do and not do with enthusiasm.

Eariler John M put up a poll that made me sound like a very small player in erotic horror.

(Tomiko and I were sharing 3 fans )

In fact as a single erotic horror actress I think I am one of the best known, and certainly have no problem selling films as Bluestone will verify.

I stick to what I do best: Breast and belly wound material with some strangulation work in either "femme fatale" or "consensual settings". I do this precisely because it does sell, not to Grave Dancer perhaps but to my core fans. (My single largest customer group is the disembowelment fans, and there are in fact a good amount of them in our community.)

I am very lucky to enjoy a loyal following and for that reason I am loyal to them.

I do believe that I ride the edge of the envelope, without crossing the edge, but perhaps it is not enough for Grave Dancer, and that is OK. Ultimately it is my face and body out there doing the material. For that reason I get to choose the limits I set.

Baci and again...let's remember the Spirit of the Season

[Dr Don]

Time for me to step in for a moment, just to offer some comments on the several foregoing posts. I see that tempers are running a little high, which is understandable taking into account the serious issues being discussed; however, I think we've all got to keep some important principles in mind:

1. We must respect each others' opinions, whether we agree with them or not. I specifically asked for consumers to post, and GraveDancer accommodated me by stating his opinion and providing his feedback. When a poster does so, I don't think it's appropriate to attack him; although, we can disagree with his opinions;

Allow me to make a distinction. I respect one's right to have an opinion, but I am under no obligation to respect that opinion regardless of who's it is.

2. I agree that those with our fetishes should be very careful labeling one fetish as sicker than our own. Now, I don't personally get off on having sexual relations with a dead women, but I absolutely love to see Petra and Suzi strangled or shot to death, especially using their spectacular breasts for target practice. Can I really say that GraveDancer is any sicker than I? I don't think so. I thought it was those without sin who got to throw the first stone.

Point taken, but my concern still stands. Some of us are more perceptive than others. I happen to be very perceptive. I think I was polite about it and expressed it as a friendly concern. So no harm intented and it has nothing to do with me thinking someone has a sicker fantasy than me. But now that you mention it, my fantasies are quite mild compared to that sick sheet. Just stating a fact. If anyone doesn't like that fact, to fricken bad. If anyone thinks they can humiliate me into submitting to their ignorant ways of thinking, be my guest and make asses of yourselves.

It is nice to see Dr. Don post here, since he's not on the boards often these days as a result of his on-going legal battles. Thanks for your contributions to this thread, Don.

Actually I'm not here often because of past experiences with disrespectful nit picking juveniles that jump to conclusions and make assumptions all the time. I get sick of the responses from ignorant people who can't comprehend what is stated and start going off topic all over the place...reading into things that were never stated, calling me a hypocrite while ignoring their own hypocracies and ignorance....using straw man arguments and posts filled with logic falicies.

Dealing with lawyers and courts for 9 years, and learning to stick with the facts has caused me to have little patience for people who are scatter brained and all over the place. And when people start with their snarky remarks and atttitudes I have no patience for that sheet.

You treat me with respect and that's what you will get in return. My children have more respect for others, and know how to talk to people far better than some of the people I encountered on this thread today.

It is unfortunate that everybody on this thread doesn't get along, but I truly believe that we all have more in common with one another than with any other group on the planet. So, I encourage everyone to try to keep the brawling to a minimum
Blue

Your a party pooper now aren't you....LOL. There's nothing like a good brawl at Christmas to work off the extra calories.

[Dr Don]

KHP: Your the best.

[Dalila di Capri]

It means something to me too. Hot college girls gettin' wacked by a guy in a Santa suit!

How about hot femme fatales being wacked in Santa suits???

[Dr Don]

It means something to me too. Hot college girls gettin' wacked by a guy in a Santa suit!

How about hot femme fatales being wacked in Santa suits???

I have a Mrs. Santa suit for you. It's a Santa red string bikini bottom.......made of edible jube-jube candy.

[Peter]

I have a Mrs. Santa suit for you. It's a Santa red string bikini bottom.......made of edible jube-jube candy.

I'd eat that!

[Dalila di Capri]

Here is a santa suit for you!!

Merry Christmas

[Nyghtfall]

If you live in the UK or Canada, then yes, they are illegal when combined. Thankfully, I don't live in either country, nor do any of the producers I buy from.

As for the possibility of them being outlawed in the US some day... well... that's anyone's guess. Until then, I'll continue buying what interests me and pass on everything else - which is most everything anymore...

[Dr Don]

Here is a santa suit for you!!

Merry Christmas

I wish I was your chair right now.

[GraveDancer]

Dear Peter,

thank you for ripping me a new one, I guess I needed and deserved that. But somehow I think you're barking at the wrong tree. You can't change the consumers' demands. And the popularity and longevity of a site like NP alone shows that there is a demand for these, as you call it, utterly vile scenes. Always has been, always will be.

No-one can choose what turns him on and different people have different fantasies. Going after the consumers is therefore futile. And if you believe in free speech and a free market, then going after the producers who satisfy this demand is hypocritical. We're not talking about real snuff. We're not talking about child porn. We're not even talking about hard BDSM with real pain, blood or actual (non-fatal) asphyxia. We're talking about fantasies and the artistic expression of these fantasies, including the depiction of sexual acts, done by consenting adults.

If you think that there's anything wrong with that on an ethical level, then please consider that almost everyone who isn't part of this community will think exactly the same about your own products. You can't set boundaries on artistic expression, even if it means that your world get turned upside down like the world of music because of this vile and tasteless little dissonant chord f-b-d#′-g#′ (Dalila should recognize it - and hey, it's even on topic, given how that opera ends).

But I apologize for not respecting your absolutely justified and understandable concerns on a practical, legal level. I can see the illness, I only criticize the suggested cure. And yep, maybe I'm doing so for selfish reasons, and for that I deserve your disrespect.

However that be, what I would expect from the producers who are worried about hardcore content is to separate themselves as clearly as possible from those who produce all that vile and heinous stuff. Not just by talking about it, but by taking action: Gather the concerned fantasy death producers of America, set up a family friendly NicheClips clone where everyone who dares to produce explicit sexual material (and not just the material itself) is banned, open a forum where the moderators will delete every mentioning of a possible connection between sex and death and ban members they've seen posting on other, dirtier forums. Do everything possible to make it very clear that you're the good guys who have nothing in common with those evildoers like JohnM.

If you want to change something, start with yourself. I did by not buying any non-explicit videos anymore. So can you, by not allowing any explicit material and those who produce it anywhere near your own products. For a start, stop posting preview pictures on a board where producers like PKF, CC and PT do advertise. Or get Bluestone to ban those other producers.

Of course I hope that you don't do any of this, because I have nothing but the highest respect for you as a person and as a producer. I really love how you've turned the minimalistic vignette into a form of art and judging from the pictures I've seen, you're clearly one of the best photographers in the biz.

I hope that doesn't shock you, coming from someone like me. :-)

[GraveDancer]

One more thing to no-one in particular:

As I've said, I've been around in this community for a decade now, mostly as a lurker, but every now and then I voice my opinions. And this board has been the very first and only fetish related place where someone called my fantasies "sick" without being ironic.

Stories are the most direct expression of fantasies. So for me, reading them is a good method to see what kind of fantasies exist in the fantasy death world and where my own fantasies stand in comparisson. And to be honest, until now I was under the impression that they're pretty much in the middle of the road, or actually rather tame compared to most fantasies you can find on Dolcetish, The Disturbing Forum, the NB public forum and story archive, Damians, DS and many other places, inlcuding even this forum's story board.

So, color me surprised.

I also thought that not judging other people's fantasies was one of the very few absolutely fundamental rules this community was build on.

Well, I get older and learn new things, even if I don't like what I have to learn.

[Bluestone]

GraveDancer,

I will let Peter address those comments directed to him, but I'd like to make my position and this board's position abundantly clear:

1. I will not be censuring any producer's work, either by banning them as advertisers on FF or by banning their participation on this forum, unless they become involved in child porn or other clearly illegal activities. There is a line that has to be drawn, but, despite my personal feelings on hardcore porn, the line is NOT going to be drawn between softcore and hardcore porn at FF. We are all adults here. If some of us prefer the hardcore elements, or mixing hardcore interests with softcore interests, they are free to use producer links on FF to find the material that they are interested in. It is still a free continent

2. It is absolutely essential that we respect each other's fantasy fetishes, despite our own personal likes and dislikes. GraveDancer, I totally respect your fantasies. They are as legitimate as mine. In fact, I have fantasies that I would never film, but I have included them in my stories over the last 8 or 9 years in this community. They are quite a bit more extreme than my film work, and they often involve strangling a woman during sex, to use an example. It is just my personal decision not to film such scenes. It's not that I don't have that fantasy fetish Like I said earlier in this thread, only those without sin should be throwing those stones, and the last time I looked Jesus is not a member of this forum. Sage advice tells us not to judge, or we will be judged. That's the rule that I live by.

I hope that clarifies the board's position on these issues.

Thanks for continuing to post here, GraveDancer. You are a respected and vital part of this forum... as is everyone else here!

Administrator Blue