How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

This is where you will find discussions on all things relating to female death scenes from movies, T.V. and genre productions.
Also, try FF CHAT! Click on this link to go there: chat

Moderators: Moderators, Admin

User avatar
chton
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Let's Get Back To Having Fun!

Post by chton »

elsullo wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:01 pm
chton wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:18 pm Wow, so this community is so different from the rest. (NO, IT IS NOT. EVERY BOARD OWNER HAS TO MONITOR THEIR SITE OR BULLIES LIKE YOU TRY TO TAKE OVER. GRACEX AT FETNOIR WAS SUBTLE AT MODERATION, AND SHE USED PRIVATE MESSAGES TO WARN PEOPLE TO CALM DOWN. SHE HAD TO TONE ME DOWN MANY TIMES, AND RIGHTFULLY SO.) Someone says something against the authority (THAT IS ALL THAT YOU HAVE DONE HERE SINCE SHOWING UP.) and instantly it's insults about school yard bullies. (NOT AN INSULT; IT WAS A QUESTION, TO SEE IF YOU RECOGNIZED A PATTERN. LIKE RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST BULLIES USE IN DEBATES.) I would say I expect better, (NO, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO EXPECT ANYTHING.)

Did I every ask for it to be my way? (YES, YOU DID. YOU DEMANDED IT!) Did I not clearly acknowledge that it's his board and he can run it as he pleases? (NO, YOU NEVER DID.) Who's calling me an infiltrator? Why is that even something you would say? (BECAUSE IN THE THREAT LETTERS FROM THE PURITAN FANATICS THEY BRAGGED ABOUT THE NUMBERS OF INFILTRATORS THEY ALREADY HAVE HERE!)
Isn't this supposed to be a better community than that? (THERE IS NO "SUPPOSED TO BE" AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TRY TO CHANGE ANYTHING.)
Well since you quoted my post I would like you to point out where I demanded change. Thanks, I'll wait. I'd say I should point out where I said it's his board and he can run it as he sees fit, but those speak for themselves.
Don't have a coniption defending the board, as I imagine a pattern where you need to be part of something and are threatened by any contrary thinking, so you instantly leap to defend it. I guess if you are usually the outsider it's a big deal to be seen as the staunch community defender.
Anyways, I await the requested points, but I expect more angry ranting about what you think I wrote.
User avatar
Bluestone
Site Admin
Posts: 12718
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:09 pm
What is your main fetish?: strangulation
Why do you want to join this forum?: I'm the owner
Referral: Bluestone, of course!
Location: The True North
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by Bluestone »

chton wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:28 pm
Bluestone wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:24 pm Looks like the posts above should be on a separate thread. So, here it is. Enjoy your "freedom" to be disagreeable without interrupting an unrelated topic thread.

FF Admin
Exactly lets shunt anything we don't like to another thread. :shake:
It's not a matter of like or dislike. All of the above posts have nothing to do with the thread from which they were removed. You wanted to talk about China, police states and freedom, so rant away! I couldn't care less, as long as you're civil to other members, which doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

Blue
Bluestone's Silk Videos - Producer of Sexy Crime Dramas and Superheroine Films featuring HOT actresses!

DDGBluestone@hotmail.com
User avatar
redeemer503
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:45 am
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by redeemer503 »

chton: "I await the requested points, but I expect more angry ranting about what you think I wrote."

In all caps of course.

bluestone: " I couldn't care less, as long as you're civil to other members, which doesn't appear to be your strong suit."

Nor yours, nor elsollo's, but hey...
Damon
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by Damon »

Bluestone wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:44 pm
chton wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:28 pm
Bluestone wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:24 pm Looks like the posts above should be on a separate thread. So, here it is. Enjoy your "freedom" to be disagreeable without interrupting an unrelated topic thread.

FF Admin
Exactly lets shunt anything we don't like to another thread. :shake:
It's not a matter of like or dislike. All of the above posts have nothing to do with the thread from which they were removed. You wanted to talk about China, police states and freedom, so rant away! I couldn't care less, as long as you're civil to other members, which doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

Blue
To be fair, Chton wasn't the one shouting in capitals, if you're talking about people being civil. Long standing member of the fetish though, who posts a lot though?
DQue
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Let's Get Back To Having Fun!

Post by DQue »

chton wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:47 am
Anarchy is freedom, because freedom is chaos.
In true anarchy, freedom only exists for those with the might to enforce it. If there are no boundaries, then nothing is forbidden, which includes trampling on the freedoms of others, if you can get away with it. Extreme anarchy is about as bad as extreme order. A boot still goes into your face, whether it's government-issued or Doc Martens.
User avatar
chton
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Let's Get Back To Having Fun!

Post by chton »

DQue wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:51 am
chton wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:47 am
Anarchy is freedom, because freedom is chaos.
In true anarchy, freedom only exists for those with the might to enforce it. If there are no boundaries, then nothing is forbidden, which includes trampling on the freedoms of others, if you can get away with it. Extreme anarchy is about as bad as extreme order. A boot still goes into your face, whether it's government-issued or Doc Martens.
Yes that's true and your point is? You would prefer the gov't issue? If it wasn't what was the point of stating the obvious, that both extremes are bad. I said what I said because it is true, not what I support.
Some folks want to read a lot into what I typed. I'm still waiting for where I demanded changes and I guess it's ok to attack people you don't agree with in all caps and I get the comments about sociability.
Some folks like to pretend this community is better than society as a whole but this shows it's all the same. There were better run boards, like FN, but here it seems like you can harass those you don't agree with and it's my fault. :roll:
DQue
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Let's Get Back To Having Fun!

Post by DQue »

chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:23 pm
Yes that's true and your point is? You would prefer the gov't issue? If it wasn't what was the point of stating the obvious, that both extremes are bad. I said what I said because it is true, not what I support.
That's a circle we could go around in forever. If you don't support anarchy, why type anything about people being afraid of it? Why compare it to freedom? It's as if you're using deliberately provocative language to encourage arguments, and then when someone calls you out, retreating behind "well, I don't support that." Your opening remark in this thread compares FF to China, of all things, and either that's a gross exaggeration, in which case, how much of what you say can be taken seriously? ...or, it's something you genuinely believe, in which case why are you here, where oppression reigns and the bad old enforcers won't let you spout off in just any old place at any moment for any reason - the horror of it all!

I said my earlier statement because the idea that "anarchy is freedom" is false, just on the face of it. Anarchy is only freedom for some. Or, more exactly, anarchy is the freedom for some people to take advantage of others, while those others have the freedom to suffer because of it.
User avatar
chton
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by chton »

That is 100% your opinon. I hate to tell you no matter how strongly you feel something that doesn't make it true. I fail to see what you believe freedom is, or I guess you don't like freedom. I get that many people are scared of others freedoms but the worse folks are the ones afraid of their own freedom. These people need someone to tell them what to do and how to behave or they will be monsters or victims. But you don't have to make the false choice.
Just because you want to fight doesn't make my statements provocative. People continue to read extreme statements into my posts. I guess it's we all get along and agree or someone is purposefully trying to start a fight. I tend to think of it as starting people thinking. But thinking is another things many people are afraid of and would rather avoid and talk about the weather.
I maintain that the moderation stance, that people should beware of infiltrators and some such just makes this community unwelcoming. I think that monitoring people because they may be some one intent on destroying the community is far different from regular moderation. I think that attitude poisons people from posting, unless you agree.
I never said to not moderate or that I had any rights to speak, or that I should. I was immediately jumped on and yelled at in all caps just proving that happens. Anyways, I guess back to lurking and let the handful of posters keep up their conversations without anyone new (who could be an infiltrator) bothering you.
DQue
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by DQue »

chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pm I fail to see what you believe freedom is, or I guess you don't like freedom.
Yes, yes, of course that must be it: because my idea of freedom doesn't line up exactly with yours, I must not like freedom. Brilliant.

If another person has total freedom, and they use that freedom to put me in a cage, then where's my freedom? But then some people complain that if we prevent the person with a cage from putting other people into it, we're taking away that freedom from them!

Any right or freedom you think you have works only so long as the people around you agree to abide by and respect that freedom. But the moment a society says "you can't do this thing to other people", and enforces it, you no longer have anarchy, you have law and limits. This spreads more general freedom around, at the cost of restricting particular freedoms - we give up the right to put other people in cages so that everyone can go about their day without constantly having to protect themselves against people trying to put them in cages.
chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmJust because you want to fight doesn't make my statements provocative.
I don't want to fight. I'm certain you want to fight, though.
chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI tend to think of it as starting people thinking. But thinking is another things many people are afraid of and would rather avoid and talk about the weather.
Perhaps I'm trying to start you thinking, then. Or is it that you feel only other people need to think and reconsider things, and that you never need to adjust your outlook?
chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI maintain that the moderation stance, that people should beware of infiltrators and some such just makes this community unwelcoming.
Perhaps, but there's some things that counter that: 1) Fetnoir was indeed brought to the point of not returning, at least hopefully temporarily, by a concerted harassment campaign. To abandon any caution at all seems to be careless at best. 2) "Unwelcoming" is a relative term. If you invite a guest into your home and they start loudly criticizing the way the place looks and they go around tipping over the chairs, it might be "unwelcoming" for you to kick the guest out or otherwise restrict their actions, but it isn't unreasonable. Such a guest might even call you a fascist or something for not letting them upset the furniture. How welcoming do you have to be, and is there any limit?
chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI think that monitoring people because they may be some one intent on destroying the community is far different from regular moderation. I think that attitude poisons people from posting, unless you agree.
I don't think that at all. Monitoring people is part of good moderation - if you want to protect that community. Now, it's possible to do that quietly and in many ways secretly, or it can be done more openly, at the cost of ruffling some feathers. One could argue that being more open about it could be a deterrent to those who are operating in bad faith - those who truly wish to disrupt the community.
chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI was immediately jumped on and yelled at in all caps just proving that happens.
I mean, when you compare the site staff to China, do you expect to not get "jumped on"? Okay, you just want to speak your mind openly or whatever, justify it how you like, but you can't let off an insult and then reasonably complain "woe, why are they picking on me?". If you have some sort of justification for your expressions, then you have to expect to get some of the same kind of responses in kind - they get to speak their mind too. You don't get to hide behind some kind of shield of a standard of politeness if you're not willing to abide by that standard yourself.

As for the all-caps thing, I can't speak for elsullo, but at least in one post that seemed more to me like he was quoting your points in an awkward manner and needed some way to differentiate his text from yours when they were all inside the same quote box. Everywhere else seemed like individual words and phrases were in caps for emphasis. Not everyone is skilled with phpbb code. You might cut him some slack on that one, but hey, I'm not your Dad.

chton wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmAnyways, I guess back to lurking
Flounce away.
User avatar
elsullo
Posts: 712
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:22 pm
Why do you want to join this forum?: I have an active fantasy life---it's all PLAY.....................
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by elsullo »

Um, I was NOT shouting when I was typing in all caps. I was quoting from your post and adding my response in caps to make it clear that it was MY words of response; plus I used parentheses to separate my words from yours. I am unable to use italics or different colors, so I have to use caps to distinguish my statements of reply within someone else's quoted post. You did not need to interpret that as an attack, as you well know.......................elsullo
User avatar
redeemer503
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:45 am
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by redeemer503 »

DQue: "Not everyone is skilled with phpbb code. You might cut him (elsulo) some slack on that one, but hey, I'm not your Dad."

Well, elsulo did scream out that GraceX had to "calm him down MANY times". That combined with the ranting style of his prose (in all caps) might reasonably make people conclude he's got anger issues. I think the benefit of the doubt should be directed towards chton.
DQue
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by DQue »

redeemer503 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:45 pm
Well, elsulo did scream out that GraceX had to "calm him down MANY times". That combined with the ranting style of his prose (in all caps) might reasonably make people conclude he's got anger issues. I think the benefit of the doubt should be directed towards chton.
That would be ignoring all context for the sake of a particular negative narrative, wouldn't it?
User avatar
redeemer503
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:45 am
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by redeemer503 »

No, it sounds more like a guy admitting he has a problem.
DQue
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by DQue »

redeemer503 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:36 am No, it sounds more like a guy admitting he has a problem.
All right, let's break it down:
redeemer503 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:45 pm
Well, elsulo did scream out
Instantly we're at the first problem: characterizing it as "screaming" only works if you discount my suggestion that it wasn't screaming at all but a style of differentiation, or completely ignore that elsullo essentially said the same thing after I made that post. At best this is not giving elsullo the benefit of the doubt; at worst this is deliberately misrepresenting the situation because you dislike elsullo and want to make him look bad.
redeemer503 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:45 pmthat GraceX had to "calm him down MANY times".
What, you mean to tell me that Fetnoir used their power to quell dissent?? Shocking. What a bed of authoritarians. Anyway, I like how you've emphasized "many" here - in all caps, you shouter! - to play that up. What is many, here? 4? 10? 876? We don't know.
redeemer503 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:45 pmThat combined with the ranting style of his prose (in all caps) might reasonably make people conclude he's got anger issues.
Again, the all-caps thing only works for one narrow interpretation, and if "ranting style" is the basis of how you judge anger issues, well, one could easily make such claims about chton's own writing style - but you won't, because you feel the need to defend him, so you establish a double standard.
redeemer503 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:45 pmI think the benefit of the doubt should be directed towards chton.
Of course you do.
User avatar
redeemer503
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:45 am
Contact:

Re: How Much Freedom Is There On FF?

Post by redeemer503 »

Well yes DQue, the benefit of the doubt would have to go with chton over the guy who admits to having been told to calm down "many times" on another message board. Even it was just four times, it would be four more than Ive received telling me to "calm down" on Fetnoir the entire decade or so of membership.
Im not sure if you're best buds with elsulo or his direct sock puppet or whatever but chton had a valid argument concerning members treatment on this board, (which is evident in this conversation) and you can agree or disagree with him and move on, but it seems neither of you want to do that and are hell bent on making it an "us vs them" argument for the sake of doing so.
As for me, Im not sure I want to spend the entirety of my time on a death fetish message board endlessly battling someone I dont know over issues that dont really concern you and arent going to agree about. If that makes you happy, the rest of this thread is yours. Knock yourself out.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 56 guests