What About a Rating System for Producers?

[Bluestone]

Hey Everyone,

I was corresponding with another major producer the other day who commented on the increased numbers of producers on Nicheclips and the resulting reduction in his personal sales volumes as a result. I have also had the unfortunate experience of purchasing videos from Niche that looked promising only to find that the production values were terrible and the story and acting amateurish. With the price of video cameras coming down constantly, almost anyone with a video camera can call themselves a producer. Since Niche offers a website presence and ebillers, there is virtually no investment required in order for one to set up a video store. So, I got to wondering...

1. Are there other customers out there who have purchased substandard video productions, and have no place to complain about it? If they are unable to get satisfaction from the producer, should there be a place where they can post in order to warn others... such as a public review site, or a thread on a message board such as FF?

2. Should a rating system be developed, perhaps along the line of G-Man's rating system, so that potential customers can at least know whether a video is considered a 1 out of 10, or a 9 out of 10? Obviously, different material appeals to different people in different ways, but if the presentation is generally poor in several important categories, such as production values, acting sophistication, quality of special effects, etc., then I'd think potential customers would want to know that.

Am I completely out to lunch here? Let me know. It has been known to happen. I just feel that people can post on FF saying that they didn't like a certain Bluestone video, but where do you post if you didn't like 'Strangle Video #2' from 'Substandard Quality Productions, c/o Ed's backyard treehouse'? On the other hand, I'd love to hear that a new, virtually unknown producer has scored with a new production that has been purchased and enjoyed by others. Wouldn't you feel better about buying "Sexy Girl Shot in the Tummy" by 'New Kid on the Block Videos' if a respected FF member said it was really cool and that the actress was Hot, Hot, Hot!!!?

All of which is respectfully submitted.

Blue

[bakerboy]

A good idea but not workable that much, unless you want to have a war between various fans of different producers and the producers themselvs. Essentially the "market" decides which is good and successful and which is not:

Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.
Adolf Hitler

[astrokill]

I think it could be done. However, that would be a separate thread (or a separate section of the home page, which is much more recommended). In addition, what would make it workable is that there should be one constant reviewer (like G-Man) to start off the threads in the review section. And everyone else (members, producers, etc.) can chime-in in a talkback after the main reviewer's review.

[Bluestone]

Okay, what about a panel of reviewers, say 3? In that way, we don't get just one person's opinion. Plus, G-Man is too busy with getting out all of the wonderful FF content. I am suggesting that the panel of reviewers should be regular customers of the Nicheclips site, i.e. those who buy clips regularly from that mall site and can comment on new producers and new material. The established producers who frequent this site and their material are well known to the community in general. It's the flood of new producers and new material that I was suggesting that we concentrate on... producers who do not have their own site and are not easily accessible through message boards. I'm sure people would like a heads up on 'gems' that are out there, as well as a warning about 'stinkers' before they plunk down their shekels for a video sight unseen.

Calling all Nicheclip junkies!!! Anyone interested in taking a stab at this.

I like Astrokill's idea for a separate "Review Forum", but let's start off with a thread on this forum first to see if the idea flies.

Any other comments from anyone? Do you want a separate Review forum? Do you think these are good ideas, or do you think Blue's smoking too much of that funny weed too often?

Buzzed Blue

[kevin67]

Hi,

This sounds like a good idea, if it is limited to new producers with new sites or non affiliated sites on niche clips. The difficulty wouldc be in finding three critics who can be fair in their judgment. Most people, whether they are site members or frequent customers of niche clips, buy the clips which fit their death fetish. Can a person who likes stabbings fairly evaluate stranglings or drownings?

[circum95]

Great idea! I ended up buying material from Nicheclips producers that I totally hated and found a straight ripoff. I don't mind naming and shaming. Maybe I ll get a lot of flak - but of the producers I bought from, on a scale from 1-10:

Gruntfilm: 2/10
Morgue Cafe: 3/10
Directors Cut: 3/10
PKF: 8.5/10
Bluestone: 8.5/10
Brutal Tales: 7/10
Pure Terror: 6/10
Slaymates: 5/10
Dark Fantasies: 6/10
COH and COH extreme: 6.5/10

This rating is based on:

1) Content matches description
2) Technical aptitude (I used to be a mainstream movie cameraman. I don't expect miracles - but ...)
3) Professionalism of the edit, effects and sounds

[JohnM]

My thoughts are this.

This community really needs more forums like here, DS, PP, PKF--wherever that allows comments on other producers so that customers can get an idea of what is good. Sure, the comments will be subjective. If someone does not like me or my content, their reviews are going to be unkind. But, in the long run it does not matter, because if overall the producer is good, the trend will be toward positive feedback.

Here is the way I see it.

Attention first time buyers! Here is how you don't get screwed.

#1 Check out Nicheclips or TPAP.
#2 Find a producer you think you might like--I suggest they have been selling for 6mo or more to get an accurate representation of sales and quality.
#3 Search for threads on the various forums about the producer
#4 On TPAP, sort movies by "Best Selling" and set range from 6mo to 1 year and count how many that producer has in the first 20 pages...5 or more is good.
#5 On Niche, count how many movies from that producer are in the top50...5 or more is good.
#6 Contact the producer if you have a specific question....,while busy, producers that want your business will talk to you. Some producers like me, will answer fast---but it is important they answer.

Other ways to tell:
In general, producers that use small preview images or single, fuzzy preview images either don't have the time or technical know how to do better. Whatever the case, assume that the preview quality may represent the quality of the overall product. Factor that into your decision with the points above.

If a store is updating weekly, they are probably making money and put out a good product.
If the store is updating almost every day, they are probably making money.

Don't Be Fooled
Be careful of jumping on clips just because they are on the top50 or best selling list (when sorted for 1mo or less). It may not mean anything except that in a 24hr or so period a certain number of clips sold. It does not speak to the quality of the product, only the amount that product was desired by the customer. My above steps will help you determine if the producer that made the clip is likely to have a good product.

Good luck,
JohnM

[tommygun]

Blue, I think it's a great idea, but the mechanics seem to be unwieldy. There is no question that I've gotten some pretty schlocky material, and would love to make it known so that others don't share the same experience. But getting something where there was easy input from a number of people seems difficult. And the review panel is a good idea, but who pays for the material to review? And are the reviews by production (some of which would be good, others not so good) or by producer and the overall quality of the work? Perhaps G-Man could start a section called producers, and we could have one thread for comments on the productions of each of the producers, adding a new thread if a new producer came along.... Just thinking... Still sounds like a lot of work for someone!

[Bluestone]

Hey Guys and Dolls,

Some great ideas and comments here! Thanks to all who have contributed their ideas and comments so far. Yes, the panel idea would mean a lot of work for some people. I figured there might be some people out there who purchase, and have purchased, from Niche, and might want to run with the idea of reviewing what they've purchased to date, both good and bad.

If there are no such people, or no such people with the time to spend, then perhaps this thread can be used by individuals such as Circum95 who just want to alert people to good or poor producers or productions.

JohnM provided some good advice for shopping at Nicheclips. Just because a video sells doesn't mean it's good. It just may mean that it looks good, and everyone is buying it, hating it, but have no way to alert others that it's a dog!

If there are more people who want to share their experiences, please feel free to post on this thread. If this does develop into what we feel is a useful community service, G-Man and I could open a Review Forum. It's really up to all of you as to whether or not you find this a useful topic of discussion.

Blue

[astrokill]

Hi, I was reading all the comments above, in consideration for all opinions. Here's what I think. My suggestion is to open up a "Reviews on Videos" thread. In this thread, various reviewers can begin their sub-threads/reviews (think http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com, with Harry, Quint, Massawyrm). It is true that everyone will have an opinion, with different tastes, different fetishes. Will different tastes affect opinions? Yes, it would. Consider that some people love indie films, but hate mainstream films, and those that love mainstream films, but hate indie films, heck there are those that hate all. And even then, we have the few people hating the new "Star Trek" film (Roger Ebert) and those who liked it (which must be 95% of critics). I think that this thread can accomodate for all.

For example, if I continually post reviews, one thing the reader would know is that I love strangling or shooting, and then make their opinion based on the review, knowing who the reviewer is. If we do open up a separate "Reviews on Videos" thread, I suggest the reviewer be more detailed on what he/she liked, not "This sucks!" or "Dis is da greatest thing ever!" , and I also recommend when starting a sub-thread the thread's titles would be just like aint-it-cool sub-titles, like, for example, "Toy Gun Fun review by AstroKill", so that way, people can respond to the review, or start reviews of the clip on their own. This would accomodate the people who do not have time to post reviews. Also, it gives an added bonus, producers can review other producers' clips.

In addition, and here is my best advice as well if we go forward with this. In every review site, there is talk-back, aka, people will give opinions on your review and post feedbacks on the review. I ask the reviewer to not take anything personally when "talk back" occurs, I recommend the reviewer not even looking at the the talk-back after their review actually. The reviewers can see other talk-backs, but I definitely do not recommend the reviewers to look at their reviews' talk-back, to maintain a degree of professionalism and enthusiasm in the reviews.

[Bluestone]

Thanks to all who contributed to his thread for your great input and advice!

I have just created a new forum entitled "Candid Video and Movie Reviews"! Please read the Rules posted there, many of which were inspired by the comments above.

I've expanded the nature of the reviews to the necro elements of mainstream movies. I'm the one person on the planet who hasn't seen "Wolverine", and I understand that there's a female death scene in that movie. Perhaps someone would like to review this or another Hollywood movie.

As for reviews of necro videos, I haven't been inundated with requests to be a reviewer, so I'm putting the word out that all reviewers are welcome. I think it will just be a matter of time before the cream rises to the top and, from their reviews, trusted reviewers will naturally arise and members will watch for and crave their reviews. So, if you feel that the role of reviewer is something you'd like to try your hand at, GO FOR IT!!!

I hope this new forum becomes a popular and useful place for customers to check out before they plunk down their hard earned money to purchase a video from Nicheclips and the other video malls out there

Blue

[astrokill]

I posted my first review. Enjoy! I wish I had the time to post reviews often, but I hope that people would post their reviews as well, so it would seem like we have daily reviews.

[Bluestone]

Thanks for your review, Astrokill! A great start to an ambitious, but worthwhile, project!

You're also right on with your comment that we should be striving for daily reviews! I've put the word out on DeadSkirts too that we are looking for reviewers.

There must be hundreds of people who have purchased something from Nicheclips that is either very good or very bad. I'm sure they're itching to share this information with others, and to read reviews from others. So, if anyone can get the word out through other forums, we can make this Customer Review Forum the first stop on the way to the Internet video mall

Blue

[Geno]

___________I am Against A Rating System For Producers__________________

I think each video should be rated on it own merits. Take for instance JohnM of PKF Productions. In his time he has put out some real crappy videos. Then JohnM will put out a few video that really are much better and go directly to beautifully protraying the death fetish...such as "The Argument" in which a boyfriend kills his agrumentive girlfriend and makes love to her dead body.

If you give him a low rating, then a lot of people may pass on his better videos. If you give JohnM a high rating, they may buy his video and get consistanly disappointed on others. So thus I say each video should be rated on it own merits. The only way that you can fairly give and overall rating to a producer, is if every one of his videos was reviewed. As you all know, only a small, select, portion of videos will ever be rated. That is not right to give a producer a high rating ,or a low rating, because of such limited reviews of his products, when on a only a small precentage of their products will ever be reviewed.

Warning: Don't use G-Man reviews as a reference because he has says that does not give negative reviews of producers. At the same time he has given very high reviews to some production I know for a fact were crappy in my book. I would have given much lower rating to them.

The would be a nasty, inaccurate thing to do, to rate a producer overall on such limited posted reviews.

Geno

[Bluestone]

Geno,

I tend to agree with you, especially if only a small percentage of a producer's works are being reviewed. If a producer has 100 videos for sale, and someone buys one and doesn't like it, that customer, if he posts a review, should refer to the video in question and not assume that all of that producer's works are of the same quality, especially if the video in question was one of the producer's earlier works. On the other hand, we are trying to set up a rating system for the smaller, lesser known producers. There are a lot of sources to go to if you want to know about JohnM's products, but what about a producer who posts 2 videos on Nicheclips. You purchase one and it looks like it was filmed by a two-year old in his backyard, and the video does not even include the material in the promos. I think you can safely post a review stating that you are completely unimpressed by 50% of this producer's works, and can warn other customers to be wary. (By the way, this example is not meant to relate to an actual producer, but only to a hypothetical one.) That's really what the new "Candid Reviews" forum is all about. We welcome reviews of all producers and their works, but we'd like to provide material on producers that is not already general knowledge in the industry. I know that JohnM is a top producer. It's nice to get reviews on his particular video products, in case I need a candid MUST BUY recommendation, but what about "Sir Bruce"? Has anyone viewed his stuff? Is it any good? I have, but I'm a producer, so it'll be up to the customers to tell other customers about that producer and how he rates, as well as all of the other newer producers out there

Blue