Religion and Politics!

[Bluestone]

This forum is for the use of the erotic death community, and almost anything goes. Having said that, let's discuss some topics that always spark interest in free-thinking individuals, Religion and Politics!

I have often seen reference on the boards to right wing fundamentalist Christians being the enemy of our community. I, for one, disagree with labeling and stereotyping people, but what does everyone else think about this? Do you think they are the enemy? Have we all been judged and relegated to hell? Are the bleeding heart liberals and atheists really our saviours? Scary thoughts, eh?

Comments, anyone?

Blue

[Den-CnB]

"right wing fundamentalist Christians being the enemy of our community"
Yes but not a big a problem as one would imagine. I have found that we ourselves are our own worse enemy. Namely angry members, some ill directed competitors, webmasters (as forums), some unpaid models, and so on have done more damage to our community than any group except the Extreme Porn Law in the UK and Especially the Credit Card companies (which rate KP the same as the material on our sites).

Dennis

[Bluestone]

And who's behind the credit card companies, forcing them to outlaw our material? Any ideas?

Blue

[Den-CnB]

I have the documentation but this is the bottom line:

President Bush was under pressure from all sorts of groups to censor the internet internationally. The deal was struck where the US would pass a Bankruptcy Reform Act generally excluding credit card debt from bankruptcy. This was about 2003 in exchange for Visa and MasterCard not supporting a shopping list of site material - our material was near the top of the list.

The deal was final in about 2004 when the US Congress passed and Bush signed the Bankruptcy reform laws. Since then it has been enforce worldwide. Until a new deal is passed with the US Congress it stays put and we have to stay in the shadows.

Dennis

[Den-CnB]

Btw, I turned my credit card government deal documentation over to Fox News and the ACLU. This documentation was mostly done by investigative reporters around the world - very powerful stuff.

ACLU and Fox News position was that yes indeed it existed and it is considered a 'business decision by Visa and MasterCard'. Visa and MasterCard officials were interviewed on Fox News Cable and they maintained this position.

Dennis

[Bluestone]

Dennis,

What is the definition in this U.S. legislation that relates to our genre? I know that my material, for example, does not offend the UK anti-snuff legislation. The definition of what the credit card companies feel is unacceptable under the legislation would be helpful for us to know.

Blue

[Max5s]

I’m more inclined to say that fundamentalist Christians are an enemy of rational thought rather than the enemy of our community.

[Den-CnB]

I’m more inclined to say that fundamentalist Christians are an enemy of rational thought rather than the enemy of our community.

As I understand it they played a major role since Bushed owed them for his election.

From the reports we got, the Bush admin went under the radar of almost all of the US population since 9/11 recently happened, we were in Afghanistan and on the verge of attacking Iraq.

At the same time 'COPA' -Child Online Protection Act- Bill Clinton's internet bill to censor the internet was taken on by the ACLU. The ACLU by 2000 had it under restraint for 1st Amendment issues. One of the problems the bill was limited to the US so sites were setting up in other countries to be on the safe side if the ACLU lost. Btw, the ACLU just won this action about a year ago when the Sup. Court found it unconstitutional.

Bush and company had to do something worldwide and walk around 1st Amendment issues. His admin directed their attention to the credit card companies since the internet needed credit cards to work. As I understand it they only contacted Visa and MC since they were getting creamed on the Bankruptcy courts worked the deal with them only.

Blue there was never any mention in the House or Senate that the Bankruptcy reform was for internet censorship. The list was done by others in the Bush admin the various groups that wanted certain things censored. These groups just added what they didn't want to see to the list what credit card company couldn't support. You could still join the sites with cash, checks, and other methods but it was just to little money to keep the sites open. V and MC nailed companies like PayPal to stop doing anything adult with their cards or they would pull their cards.

It is not limited to site material. Try to buy a pack of cigarettes when you buy six pack of beer with a credit card or whatever. You will have to pay cash for the cigarettes........it is a long list and most of notes are not on my computer since this now been history for almost 5 years.

This issue sounds too much like a conspiracy theory and I have forgotten many of the details I really can't add much to this post. Sam (of Sam's Club) and I worked on it for a few years for the information only and knew nothing could or would be done. It was something we had to live or die with.

You don't have to believe our government could do such a thing and kill our 1st Amend. rights this way via controlling a couple companies. The bottom line you can't get cards for our material, now for several years and probably for decades to come, if not forever.

Dennis

[Bluestone]

Hi Dennis,

I deleted your last post as suggested by you. Thanks for all of that very interesting information. Very scary how these issues are dealt with to do indirectly what cannot be done directly. First amendment rights have certainly been circumvented.

Blue

[Max5s]

Dennis,

I didn't see the deleted post, so I don't know what did or didn't say. While I don't doubt that certain fundamentalist Christians would get their undies in a bunch over our "community", I don't see us as being their principal target. We were rather an easy target caught up in a broader effort.

I would also disagree that the VISA and MC shutdown is not a 1st Amendment issue. Last I checked, we can still produce, sell, purchase and possess the material here in the USA. V and MC are exercising the same perogative as Blue is by banning Geno here or Geno's banning of you on DS. Despite the fact that I disagree with V and MC, they are private shops exercising their own rights (a la no shirt, no shoes, no service). How many of you have torn up your V and MC cards and closed your accounts over this issue?

This is very different from the government directly violating your 2nd amendment rights as evidenced by the Sullivan Law in NYC, or the anti gun laws in Morton Grove. It is also different from the violations of your 4th amendment rights regarding search and seizure brought about as a part of the War on Drugs or your 5 amendment rights to due process squashed under the Patriot Act.

[Den-CnB]

Max5s,

Yes, we can produce and sell almost anything we want. The 1st amendment has always been in place and you can sell our material all you want, there are very few US government restrictions. The 1st amendment had to always be a 'Non Issue".

Up to the Bush admin the credit card companies came to us to process our material for sales at a very low rate.

No matter how you do the equation Visa and MC International wont process it for sale now for about 4 or 5 years. The companies maintain it is a 'business decision' as there were too many chargebacks. Safe answer since it is their business and conduct it as they see fit.

The Bankruptcy Laws changed during the Bush admin that favored paying back the unsecured Credit Card debt. Just a coincidence.

Dennis

[Peter]

For years Necrobabes maintained a chargeback rate lower than that of most restaurants. The notion that Visa and Mastercard refuse to business with the likes of us and yet still do business with the likes of Larry Flynt (or even worse, 'restaurants'), and that they do this for 'business reasons', is a lie. They do it for censorship reasons, not business reasons. From a pure business standpoint, they loose money by not doing business with us.

Why would they being doing censorship when it costs them lost revenue to do so, not to mention the cost of the staff devoted to censorship? They do it because the US government offered to them a very lucrative change in the bankruptcy laws if they would do for the government the censorship that the US constitution forbids the government from doing. It was very surprising to me that the ACLU didn't jump all over this. But I guess it was too much the backroom conspiracy for them to make a clear legal case out of it.

[Bluestone]

I’m more inclined to say that fundamentalist Christians are an enemy of rational thought rather than the enemy of our community.

Actually, this statement is a little too general and stereotypical, in my opinion. It should read: "Some people who call themselves fundamentalist Christians are an enemy of rational thought, because they do not understand their own religion."

These guys are throwing stones at us after judging that we are sinners. Jesus would not be pleased. He would side with us, and say to these people that He never knew them as His followers. Christians are NOT to judge others. Pride (that they are better than us) comes before a fall. These so-called Christians are like the Pharisees of Jesus' time, and He called them a brood of vipers. This hopefully minority of Christians gives all Christians a bad name. Man (and woman) was created with free will. That's the deal. We can chose to believe in Christ or not, but not even Christ would try to force us to follow Him. These so-called Christians should be more concerned with their own hypocrisy and tend to the repairing of their own glass houses, before tossing stones at us

(End of sermon. Insert joke here to reclaim light-hearted spirit of the board.)

Okay, I admit that I've sinned and broken the Commandment not to covet another man's wife. Dalila, I love you

Reverend Blue

[Dalila di Capri]

Okay, I admit that I've sinned and broken the Commandment not to covet another man's wife. Dalila, I love you

Reverend Blue

Oh, Blue how sweet!

Usually when the Scarlet Whore of Babylon is depicted in American Protestant Christianity she looks very much like me!!

Seriously, I come from the part of the world wherein most of what happened in the Bible took place. I was born in Damascus and have been to the place wherein Paul the apostle went blind.

Christians in the Middle East are nothing like the fundamentalists in America.

So yes I consider myself a Christian and I believe that Jesus was who he said he was.

I also tend to think that his relationships with Mary, Martha, and Mary Magdalene were covered up by the Bishops of the chruch around 500 AD or so.

In Jesus' day it was not a sin to have several wives...

Sex is NOT a sin...and from what I understand murder in one's heart is...but depicting murder in a play or film IS NOT.

So I am sure that you are forgiven by God Blue...but your wife??That could be a different story

Baci

[Max5s]

I’m more inclined to say that fundamentalist Christians are an enemy of rational thought rather than the enemy of our community.

Actually, this statement is a little too general and stereotypical, in my opinion. It should read: "Some people who call themselves fundamentalist Christians are an enemy of rational thought, because they do not understand their own religion."

Reverend Blue

Blue,

I prefer my own verbiage as I see FCs' lack of rationality as threatening to a wide variety of groups including, but not necessarily focused on, our group. I would also be hesitant to say they don't understand their own religion. FC IS their religion. I would be more inclined to say that they are ignorant of the history of Christianity and the interpretations of scripture as discussed and debated by bonafied theologians.