Death Fetish Drama

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PainInPerfection
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What is your main fetish?: Im a sadist, I'm into heavy impact, torture and enslavement. Im a photographer and i shoot fetish inspired work. I guess the stuff i make could be considered "Death fetish" , but im not sure, I'm new to the death fetish scene.
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by PainInPerfection »

Yeah these are all good points, and it doesn't even seem possible to ban death fetish videos as a whole on grounds of obscenity. From what i understand obscenity rulings are made on a case by case basis. You can't just say that ALL death fetish videos are obscene, because there are ones which might have more aesthetic/artistic value then others, and thus those ones couldn't be declared obscene. This is why it really doesn't make sense to me what they are doing, they must know this, they cant be that stupid and ignorant. It's another reason I think they are full of shit and are just trying to get there name out there, make money from there book and bring in revenue from the podcast.

Yeah I understand totally, but what I meant though is, from a legal perspective how could you seperate the two? Why would a death fetish video be considered obscene(illegal) and not any other horror movie with scenes that mix sex and death? Is it because of the intention of the creator? Sombody who makes a fetish video could say that it wasn't there intention to have their video be sexually appealing.

CinemorgueFan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:43 pm
PainInPerfection wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:25 pm Death fetish is very unknown and it is kind of an "extreme" thing, its a good topic to use to get peoples attention and get them emotionally distraught, then capitalize off peoples fears over it. They know this and they are using it to there advantage. Simular type of thing that people were doing in the 90s with the whole satanic panic. They are only interested in making money, they are using the death fetish community as a tool to do this. They don't really care about the facts around anything, just spinning things to fit there narratives and validate their claims.

The thing is though, they can say what they want and make their money however they want, but they are talking about trying to change obscenity/censorship laws on a federal level (which they arent smart enough to do) and are stepping on toes and attacking not just the death fetish community, but the larger fetish community as a whole, AND the mainstream horror film world. Where is the line between a women getting killed in a horror film and sombody getting killed in a death fetish video? It's a very thin line, if any at all. There is tons of horror films that are way more graphic sexually and look alot more realistic then any fetish video (Ie:Irreversible).
I don't see their fight against death fetish going the way they think because their anti-death fetish stance is rooted in pro-censorship. Unless it's blatantly offensive or harmful, which death fetish is not, trying to censor media is never going to sit well with the internet. Sure, people may be repulsed by it, but the general public isn't going to focus on content that looks bad when there's actual bad media out there - media that promotes hateful views and / or features actual harm. Censors have a much bigger fish to fry, the general public has bigger issues to worry about, and no sensationalism is going to make some 20-minute death fetish custom a bigger deal than the movie Kyrie Irving appeared to promote. Unlike actual harmful content, people who don't like death fetish are free to ignore death fetish without any negative results.

The difference between horror films and death fetish videos is the intended reaction of the viewers. Horror films are meant to be repulsive, which aligns with mainstream viewpoints. Irreversible is intended to disturb. A death fetish video is not intended to disturb. Death fetish videos are meant to be sexually pleasing and that goes against the mainstream perspective. This disconnect is why there will probably never be a mainstream understanding of death fetish, but the mainstream doesn't need to understand it. It's going to exist when it's inoffensive in a real-world context.
PainInPerfection
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What is your main fetish?: Im a sadist, I'm into heavy impact, torture and enslavement. Im a photographer and i shoot fetish inspired work. I guess the stuff i make could be considered "Death fetish" , but im not sure, I'm new to the death fetish scene.
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by PainInPerfection »

Saying this in the most respectful way possible.

Shouldn't there be some sort of topic board on here specifically devoted to this situation? It's kind of disturbing to me that these women are literally trying to distroy your lifestyle and most of you don't even seem concerned.
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Indrid Cold
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by Indrid Cold »

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CinemorgueFan
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by CinemorgueFan »

Indrid Cold wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:05 pm This may be the case a lot of the time, but you know that filmmakers often play to the desires of the audience to see the killer/monster make mincemeat of the two-dimensional slaughter fodder. Granted, it's not generally of a sexual nature (though there is undeniably this element in some cases), but it's still gratification via fantasy killing. Some horror movie villains are glorified as veritable heroes.
That's true, but that's more akin to the adrenaline rush audiences feel in action movies when the hero mows down the bad guys. The gratification comes from the adrenaline rush, which has a mainstream association with violence. Sexuality does not mesh with violence from a mainstream perspective. A good demonstration of this is when James A. Janisse took offense to Shannon Elizabeth being raped to death in Jack Frost - the purely violent death scenes typically don't phase him, but he found a death that mixed sex and violence to be offensive.
PainInPerfection wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:42 pm Yeah these are all good points, and it doesn't even seem possible to ban death fetish videos as a whole on grounds of obscenity. From what i understand obscenity rulings are made on a case by case basis. You can't just say that ALL death fetish videos are obscene, because there are ones which might have more aesthetic/artistic value then others, and thus those ones couldn't be declared obscene. This is why it really doesn't make sense to me what they are doing, they must know this, they cant be that stupid and ignorant. It's another reason I think they are full of shit and are just trying to get there name out there, make money from there book and bring in revenue from the podcast.

Yeah I understand totally, but what I meant though is, from a legal perspective how could you seperate the two? Why would a death fetish video be considered obscene(illegal) and not any other horror movie with scenes that mix sex and death? Is it because of the intention of the creator? Sombody who makes a fetish video could say that it wasn't there intention to have their video be sexually appealing.
The DOJ page on obscenity is focused on child pornography and that makes sense because child pornography is harmful by nature. The same argument can't be made for death fetish because all the offensive content is fake. I'd like to give the podcasters the benefit of the doubt, but as an opponent of censorship of the arts (and yeah, I do consider this art), I can't support banning fictional content simply because someone found it offensive. The real concern should be the content that's actually harmful and / or intended to be harmful. None of us are legal experts here and I suspect there is a case that could be made against death fetish, but I don't see that succeeding because it has less to do with actual harm and more to do with assumptions of harm; harm that's not intended by the producers, hence all the disclaimers.

Trying to separate death fetish videos and horror movies will probably come down to outside information - e.g., where the death fetish video was sold, and why it was created. But I agree when it comes to the video itself, trying to separate it from horror movies isn't so simple. I think the obscenity argument should focus on the video itself, not how people use it - hell, scenes from horror movies have been used as fetish material. Worst case scenario, the death fetish videos could be presented as short horror movies and created with the intention of being short movies. The only content that might not be protected is anything depicting necrophilia because even though the necrophilia is fake, the sex isn't and it's hard to justify something with non-simulated sex as not having a sexual purpose.

Opposition to death fetish isn't worth more than a thread or two, if even that. It's going to take more than a podcast, book, and social media posts to deem fictional content "obscene" just because some people don't like the fictional depictions.
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Indrid Cold
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by Indrid Cold »

CinemorgueFan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:46 pmthat's more akin to the adrenaline rush audiences feel in action movies when the hero mows down the bad guys. The gratification comes from the adrenaline rush, which has a mainstream association with violence. Sexuality does not mesh with violence from a mainstream perspective. A good demonstration of this is when James A. Janisse took offense to Shannon Elizabeth being raped to death in Jack Frost - the purely violent death scenes typically don't phase him, but he found a death that mixed sex and violence to be offensive.
"Mainstream" or not, the link between sex and violence always has been inherent in art and media, if only implicitly. I'm not saying it's in everything, nor that necessarily anyone can be sexually aroused as opposed to repulsed by fantasy violence (I'm personally repulsed and turned off by extreme beatings and mutilation), but it is something that is indelibly imbedded in human DNA.

In the end, whether it's of a sexual nature or not is entirely irrelevant, because fantasy is just FANTASY.

The "mainstream" is always going to persecute some marginalized demographic. Only lately have the LGBTQ community been getting treated with some semblance of humanity, and they are still consistently attacked by (often notable) bigots.
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CinemorgueFan
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by CinemorgueFan »

Indrid Cold wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:57 pm "Mainstream" or not, the link between sex and violence always has been inherent in art and media, if only implicitly. I'm not saying it's in everything, nor that necessarily anyone can be sexually aroused as opposed to repulsed by fantasy violence (I'm personally repulsed and turned off by extreme beatings and mutilation), but it is something that is indelibly imbedded in human DNA.

In the end, whether it's of a sexual nature or not is entirely irrelevant, because fantasy is just FANTASY.

The "mainstream" is always going to persecute some marginalized demographic. Only lately have the LGBTQ community been getting treated with some semblance of humanity, and they are still consistently attacked by (often notable) bigots.
There isn't a link between sex and violence in art and media. The two are diametrically opposed to each other, which leads to the stigma against death fetish. Sex is pleasure, violence is pain. It's why rape is commonly treated as worse than murder in the arts, right down to Lavinia begging to be killed with her chastity intact than be forcibly violated and the rapists getting their comeuppance with the most gruesome thing Shakespeare ever did. The "standard" human DNA keeps sex and violence separate, but we all have our own quirks in our DNA, whether it be a fetish for feet, giantesses, vore, or death. And anyone who judges the lattermost should be asked about their own quirks.

No one here - except maybe troll sockpuppets / lurkers - is saying the death fetish customs aren't fantasy. But the mix of violence and sex is still there, which is difficult to comprehend for the average viewer. And art is at its most effective when it elicits reactions - reactions that are entirely different between those who have a death fetish and those who don't. Hence the stigma - those who don't have a death fetish typically can't comprehend how others view this content through a polar opposite lens.

This is not something I expect will ever change because it goes beyond mainstream intolerance of things simply different and they don't understand - the average human DNA is designed to oppose violence and even though those with death fetish are only interested in fantasy death, that's still enough to make the rest feel opposed by nature.
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Indrid Cold
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by Indrid Cold »

M'kay.
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by CinemorgueFan »

I like to write. Sue me. That's probably one reason why I have so many customs.
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christine
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by christine »

i can't believe "fetishmaster" was allowed to post for so long since that was obviously one of their accounts.
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Nyghtfall
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by Nyghtfall »

christine wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:32 am i can't believe "fetishmaster" was allowed to post for so long since that was obviously one of their accounts.
What bothers me is that they already know, from their interview with Chris, that there's nothing nefarious about our community and the women who've starred in the fetish videos we buy enjoyed the work, but they insist on looking for evidence of foul play that doesn't exist.

They clearly have no interest in the truth and have gone so far as to fabricate their own drama to further their agenda.
PainInPerfection
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What is your main fetish?: Im a sadist, I'm into heavy impact, torture and enslavement. Im a photographer and i shoot fetish inspired work. I guess the stuff i make could be considered "Death fetish" , but im not sure, I'm new to the death fetish scene.
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by PainInPerfection »

Yeah I said this numerous times already in this thread
Nyghtfall wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:45 am
christine wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:32 am i can't believe "fetishmaster" was allowed to post for so long since that was obviously one of their accounts.
What bothers me is that they already know, from their interview with Chris, that there's nothing nefarious about our community and the women who've starred in the fetish videos we buy enjoyed the work, but they insist on looking for evidence of foul play that doesn't exist.

They clearly have no interest in the truth and have gone so far as to fabricate their own drama to further their agenda.
PainInPerfection
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:18 pm
What is your main fetish?: Im a sadist, I'm into heavy impact, torture and enslavement. Im a photographer and i shoot fetish inspired work. I guess the stuff i make could be considered "Death fetish" , but im not sure, I'm new to the death fetish scene.
Why do you want to join this forum?: I want to connect to other people who have simular interests and make
Referral: Google
Location: Eastern US
Contact:

Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by PainInPerfection »

Its a shame we're not having this intelligent conversation and debate, with the podcast THEMSELVES.
It's not as if they aren't already stalking this thread all day.
I wonder if it's just that they are just to scared to respond, or if it's just they are too unintelligent and ignorant to. After hearing the "interview" with randy though, i think it's more likely a combination of all those those things.

CinemorgueFan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:24 pm
Indrid Cold wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:57 pm "Mainstream" or not, the link between sex and violence always has been inherent in art and media, if only implicitly. I'm not saying it's in everything, nor that necessarily anyone can be sexually aroused as opposed to repulsed by fantasy violence (I'm personally repulsed and turned off by extreme beatings and mutilation), but it is something that is indelibly imbedded in human DNA.

In the end, whether it's of a sexual nature or not is entirely irrelevant, because fantasy is just FANTASY.

The "mainstream" is always going to persecute some marginalized demographic. Only lately have the LGBTQ community been getting treated with some semblance of humanity, and they are still consistently attacked by (often notable) bigots.
There isn't a link between sex and violence in art and media. The two are diametrically opposed to each other, which leads to the stigma against death fetish. Sex is pleasure, violence is pain. It's why rape is commonly treated as worse than murder in the arts, right down to Lavinia begging to be killed with her chastity intact than be forcibly violated and the rapists getting their comeuppance with the most gruesome thing Shakespeare ever did. The "standard" human DNA keeps sex and violence separate, but we all have our own quirks in our DNA, whether it be a fetish for feet, giantesses, vore, or death. And anyone who judges the lattermost should be asked about their own quirks.

No one here - except maybe troll sockpuppets / lurkers - is saying the death fetish customs aren't fantasy. But the mix of violence and sex is still there, which is difficult to comprehend for the average viewer. And art is at its most effective when it elicits reactions - reactions that are entirely different between those who have a death fetish and those who don't. Hence the stigma - those who don't have a death fetish typically can't comprehend how others view this content through a polar opposite lens.

This is not something I expect will ever change because it goes beyond mainstream intolerance of things simply different and they don't understand - the average human DNA is designed to oppose violence and even though those with death fetish are only interested in fantasy death, that's still enough to make the rest feel opposed by nature.
PainInPerfection
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What is your main fetish?: Im a sadist, I'm into heavy impact, torture and enslavement. Im a photographer and i shoot fetish inspired work. I guess the stuff i make could be considered "Death fetish" , but im not sure, I'm new to the death fetish scene.
Why do you want to join this forum?: I want to connect to other people who have simular interests and make
Referral: Google
Location: Eastern US
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by PainInPerfection »

Oh and In case you cared and didnt know this. Randy/Chris/Carl is on there side. There is no reason he would have done that interview if he was totally out of the scene. They might have paid him, Or (which i suspect is likely) are blackmailing him. Considering Alecia knew him and worked with him in the past, she might have information about things he doesn't want people to know about.
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CinemorgueFan
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by CinemorgueFan »

PainInPerfection wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:02 pm Its a shame we're not having this intelligent conversation and debate, with the podcast THEMSELVES.
It's not as if they aren't already stalking this thread all day.
I wonder if it's just that they are just to scared to respond, or if it's just they are too unintelligent and ignorant to. After hearing the "interview" with randy though, i think it's more likely a combination of all those those things.
They're not open-minded enough to have this conversation. Alecia's initial post made that clear. It's all about antagonism and death fetish being wrong to them.

They've been inviting people to appear and debate with them, but that's not recommended due to their previous conduct (and it would also probably be two-on-one). They just want to shut you down and make you feel bad, while making you look bad to their audience.

I say let them use fabricated / fake posts from individuals such as FetishMaster - that only hurts their case.

And if Chris is on their side, he might be rethinking that after the way they treated him. I think he appeared due to his connection to death fetish drama and wanted to get his side out - you don't see other former death fetish producers lining up to appear on the podcast.
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Re: Death Fetish Drama

Post by corpselover »

Neither Chris nor Fetish master can be trusted and frankly, I suspect that they are the same person. Also, Chris is not his "real" name.
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