Is 'Hardcore Sex' Coupled With 'Violence' Illegal???

[Bluestone]

Well, let's follow GraveDancer's lead and get back on topic. There appear to be a few ways of dealing with this subject matter, but this board chooses not to employ Solution #1 at this time, as violent porn has not been clearly determined to be illegal:

1. Censorship by the community or self-censorship by the producers;

2. The rating by producers of such material as VP in all ads and no attachments or photo links to these movies on the FF board. In other words, there can be links to the site that holds the content, but the content should not be displayed on the FF message board;

3. No change to the existing system, other than the statement to producers and customers that such material may be considered illegal in some jurisdictions and should be produced and consumed at one's own risk.

Of course, the foregoing is not an exhaustive list of how this issue can be addressed, but are proposed solutions that are being suggested for discussion purposes only.

Anybody have any thoughts on the subject and possible methods of dealing with the possibly illegal nature of violent porn?

Blue

[tOkie]

That is one thing sorely lacking, Blue. Other than your suggestions, I haven't seen anything else put out, except the premise of not producing VP, or worse yet, just not producing at all.

I wish I had a solution. I wish I could say this will all blow over.

I do know that cogent logical thought does not work against any jury of our peers.

There must be some other way, though I can't come up with anything, at this time.

[Bluestone]

The last few posts of this thread have been split into a new thread entitled "A Case for Consideration" for those who wish to discuss the Dr. Don case further. This thread is now reverting to the original topic.

Blue for FF Administration

[Den-CnB]

Well, let's follow GraveDancer's lead and get back on topic. There appear to be a few ways of dealing with this subject matter, but this board chooses not to employ Solution #1 at this time, as violent porn has not been clearly determined to be illegal:

1. Censorship by the community or self-censorship by the producers;

2. The rating by producers of such material as VP in all ads and no attachments or photo links to these movies on the FF board. In other words, there can be links to the site that holds the content, but the content should not be displayed on the FF message board;

3. No change to the existing system, other than the statement to producers and customers that such material may be considered illegal in some jurisdictions and should be produced and consumed at one's own risk.

Of course, the foregoing is not an exhaustive list of how this issue can be addressed, but are proposed solutions that are being suggested for discussion purposes only.

Anybody have any thoughts on the subject and possible methods of dealing with the possibly illegal nature of violent porn?

Blue

Blue,

Regarding links to other sites, I don't have them on my public site. I have them on a distant URL. They will be used against you in court - at least enough for the jury to hear- and credit card companies as associating with these 'vile' sites. I suspect you could be held accountable for the posted adds by other sites on this site - just occurred to me now or I would have mentioned it earlier.

Since I opened my site, I have a statement on the front page: "By entering this site, you are making the legal statement you are an adult and want to view this material, and that it is legal for you to do so in your community, state, province or nation." along with other statements. For a couple months now, I refer my videos to a link on my site in my adds or posts on all forums.

Let me know if this is enough for both Howard's post (his Detective magazine creations) and mine in the adds.

Dennis

[Bluestone]

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your advice and your agreement to cooperate if I do impose advertising restrictions; however, at present these are just discussion topics. Also, sites like yours may not be affected at all. The discussion proposals relate only to sites that mix hardcore porn with violence.

FF's main page does have an adult material warning. Silk Videos has an even stronger warning on the front page, similar to your warning remarks.

I am not personally worried about prosecution for being 'associated' with these so-called 'vile' sites. I feel that as long as I take reasonable precautions to ensure that illegal material is not posted on this site, I can mount a successful defense to any misguided attacks against this community. This is a discussion forum though, and this seems to be a topic of some interest to the community.

Blue

[smudger]

I certainly believe you should be looking at a "plan B" in case the credit card companies come down on you. This should be in place before it happens, not after. What about Western Union, the favourite of the Nigerian fraudster? I realise that the costs are rather high on smaller sums, but it also has the advantage of giving the sender anonymity? Or I assume it does, not actually tried it?

[GraveDancer]

One more thing, because I just stumbled upon it. Go to the "Kinky Love Story" store on NicheClips and read the description of the "Schoolgirl ... violence" clip they offer. IMHO that description alone could be more damaging than all hardcore material together.

[smudger]

That's if anyone can understand it, lol! Appears to be Hungarian, and yes, wonder what your average religious juror would make of it, but it's a long way out of jurisdiction. Don't imagine they are quite so worried about it over there, Hungarians are a down to earth people who CAN generally tell reality from fantasy, unlike Canadians! (Not aimed at you or Dr Don, Blue, as you know)

[smudger]

Well, if it right that you can send the money completely anonymously that might entice some of your U.K. customers back, at the moment they are probably a bit nervous about using credit cards which could be traced back to them. Paying in cash in a shop is completely untraceable.

Perhaps the problems you had doing it online stem from the fact you would have to fund the transaction with a card or from an account and that could be a way of defrauding if you had a stolen credit card or had someones bank details, as you could send yourself cash without knowing the PIN number.

Keep up producing the great shooters Paul and you will be getting an e mail from me asking where the money has to go!

[Dr Don]

Blue: JM made another post on DS that I agree with. He is saying he looked at Max Hardore's stuff and feels if it was deemed illegal without our style of violence, then adding our style of violence into that kind of hardcore is also illegal. The question is: how is hardcore sex with peeing in a woman's face illegal, while hardcore sex and violence with cumming on a woman's face not illegal. The fact is, the Max Hardcore case makes those "vile" videos illegal.

I borrowed the word "vile" from one of Den's posts. And I agree with Den about links to those "vile" sites being used against a person in court. In my case we argued against the use of links by the crown because they did not link to any illegal sites, so they had no probative value....but the judge saw hardcore sex being advertised on the banners and allowed them into evidence anyway. We are appealing that, but just think what would have happened if those banners linked to say...Serge's Russian Necro World. A person would not have a leg to stand on for an appeal because that banner or link would be evidence of hardcore sex and violence, and support a charge for aiding in the distribution of illegal materials. Not sure exactly what the charge would be....but it could be considered racketeering in Canada if three or more people are organized in the advertising, producing and distribution of it.

I would play it safe and stick with erotic horror. If a producer puts hardcore in a video it can't be associated with the violence. Implied sex with a corpse like we see in Flesh For Frankensteine would be acceptable because we don't see penetration, and cumshots. It's only the hardcore sex and violence that's the issue.

The next thing everyone should do is send me all their money.

[GraveDancer]

@smudger: do you really think that someone advertising something as showing real death on NicheClips can be just laughed off easily? Hell, I've read on this board that some producers are concerned about the crush fetish producers also selling their stuff on NicheClips and thus making a connection to real death, even if it's just some bugs. And now a death fetish producer tries to sell more copies by saying that he captured a moment of real death isn't a problem? It doesn't matter if the incident really happened, the problem is that he's using something like that as a marketing ploy.

Not to mention that what he describes is basically a call to action for the OSHA. They can't go after him, since he's based in Hungary, but they may think that it's time to check all US producers of strangling videos, to make shure that they do everything for the safety of their models. It's not the Bush administration anymore, the OSHA may actually have some teeth again.

[smudger]

Well, aside from the fact that his "English" is almost indecipherable, I think it was merely bullshit designed to get more sales. I think the same model stayed with him for the next filming? Hardly likely if she'd nearly died.

But I take your point that there are people out there who are simpleminded enough to read these things literally.

What is the OSHA?

[GraveDancer]

I think it was merely bullshit designed to get more sales.

Exactly. And that's the problem. Especially if it works.

What is the OSHA?

Oops, I wanted to post a direct link to their FAQ, but sending referrers to .gov sites might not be a good idea, all things considered. So, just google "OSHA", it's the first hit.

[JohnM]

And now a death fetish producer tries to sell more copies by saying that he captured a moment of real death isn't a problem? It doesn't matter if the incident really happened, the problem is that he's using something like that as a marketing ploy.

What producer did that?

JohnM

[smudger]

"Kinky Love Story" on Niche. "Schoolgirl Violence" or some similar title.