chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pm
I fail to see what you believe freedom is, or I guess you don't like freedom.
Yes, yes, of course that must be it: because my idea of freedom doesn't line up exactly with yours, I must not like freedom. Brilliant.
If another person has total freedom, and they use that freedom to put me in a cage, then where's my freedom? But then some people complain that if we prevent the person with a cage from putting other people into it, we're taking away that freedom from them!
Any right or freedom you think you have works only so long as the people around you agree to abide by and respect that freedom. But the moment a society says "you can't do this thing to other people", and enforces it, you no longer have anarchy, you have law and limits. This spreads more general freedom around, at the cost of restricting particular freedoms - we give up the right to put other people in cages so that everyone can go about their day without constantly having to protect themselves against people trying to put them in cages.
chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmJust because you want to fight doesn't make my statements provocative.
I don't want to fight. I'm certain
you want to fight, though.
chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI tend to think of it as starting people thinking. But thinking is another things many people are afraid of and would rather avoid and talk about the weather.
Perhaps I'm trying to start
you thinking, then. Or is it that you feel only other people need to think and reconsider things, and that you
never need to adjust
your outlook?
chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI maintain that the moderation stance, that people should beware of infiltrators and some such just makes this community unwelcoming.
Perhaps, but there's some things that counter that: 1) Fetnoir was indeed brought to the point of not returning, at least hopefully temporarily, by a concerted harassment campaign. To abandon any caution at all seems to be careless at best. 2) "Unwelcoming" is a relative term. If you invite a guest into your home and they start loudly criticizing the way the place looks and they go around tipping over the chairs, it might be "unwelcoming" for you to kick the guest out or otherwise restrict their actions, but it isn't unreasonable. Such a guest might even call you a fascist or something for not letting them upset the furniture. How welcoming do you have to be, and is there any limit?
chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI think that monitoring people because they may be some one intent on destroying the community is far different from regular moderation. I think that attitude poisons people from posting, unless you agree.
I don't think that at all. Monitoring people is part of good moderation - if you want to protect that community. Now, it's possible to do that quietly and in many ways secretly, or it can be done more openly, at the cost of ruffling some feathers. One could argue that being more open about it could be a deterrent to those who are operating in bad faith - those who truly wish to disrupt the community.
chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmI was immediately jumped on and yelled at in all caps just proving that happens.
I mean, when you compare the site staff to China, do you expect to
not get "jumped on"? Okay, you just want to speak your mind openly or whatever, justify it how you like, but you can't let off an insult and then reasonably complain "woe, why are they picking on me?". If you have some sort of justification for your expressions, then you have to expect to get some of the same kind of responses in kind - they get to speak their mind too. You don't get to hide behind some kind of shield of a standard of politeness if you're not willing to abide by that standard yourself.
As for the all-caps thing, I can't speak for elsullo, but at least in one post that seemed more to me like he was quoting your points in an awkward manner and needed some way to differentiate his text from yours when they were all inside the same quote box. Everywhere else seemed like individual words and phrases were in caps for emphasis. Not everyone is skilled with phpbb code. You might cut him some slack on that one, but hey, I'm not your Dad.
chton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pmAnyways, I guess back to lurking
Flounce away.