Re-introduction

[Nightposter]

Night,

I understand your opinion and it is very well respectable.

I understand kelli as well (as I told her through email exchanges)

what I dont understand and i will not accept is the accusation of "pedophilia" associated with a fetish for young girls that are on legal age (+18). It is just a fetish like any other, and as long as they are of legal age, I will not accept to have my fetish trashed or even suggested to cover or enhance pedophilia.

I don't have a problem with the 18-21 crowd per say, I just ( literally ) "draw" the line at 21 so as not to even become a questionable blip on some zealot's radar.

Where I do have a problem, is where someone hires a young looking 19 - 25 year old, dresses her in a white shirt, plaid skirt and saddle shoes then braids her hair, tells the viewer she is 15 then has forced sex with her.

I know you are not in the USA, and that what is not acceptable here is widely embraced in other countries. The Japanese, and their fascination with young looking Amine, and school girls in their sailor suits is something I just don't understand...

You have your right to your fetish, as I have to mine, and Kelli has to her's.
but equally, we all have the right to not like someone else's fetish....

Unfortunately, There are those who will try and destroy any fetish they deem "immoral"
or against 'their" religious view. Hopefully, they will never find their way here.

[shootingmad]

Night,

you are right, we are all entitled to have our own fetish. Or a variety of fetishes, as its mostly the case.

what we dont have the right to do is to bash someone else or treat someone else like a creep/pedophile/insane guy just because we dont share that fetish. Specially considering the very self type of fetish most of us have in common. We should be the last ones to point others fetishes as immoral or insane or ill-mented.

I understand your example of a young looking model acting as a preteen girl being abused. That is an apology of pedophilia if you will. And I share your opinion on this, it is no good.
However, I cant help pointing out that in the same sense, your fetish (as well as mine) might as well be considered an apology of murder. Would you like someone of this community to point at you and say: "hey, you sick fuck-up wannabe murderer" just because it is his right to disagree with your own fetish?

we can draw the lines in many aspects and I believe that is a must do for every producer when they chose what to produce and what target in the market should they aim at.

btw, im in Argentina. Legal age here is 21 for some things, and 18 for some others depending on what you are doing.
In Germany, if im not wrong, legal age for consensual sex is 14. Here (Argentina) it is 16. And im sure in other countries it varies from the range between 14-18. So it is really hard to tell universaly speaking what is moral and immoral in regards of this controversy of young girls portrayed on screen. It will nonetheless rest on the morals of the person that speaks their mind.

That being said, since this rests on a moral-cultural matter it will therefore just become a philosophical discussion where many opinions and points of view can be arised, with no real factual undeniable truth. I.e. respect for each others point of view is mandatory, as well as avoiding treating others like sick people just because they feel different about a matter than you do.

And just for the record, JohnM`s movies always state the legal age of the actresses. If the viewer of the movie wants to "suspend disbelief" and feel the girl on screen as a pre-teen then that is a matter of the own buyer. If he wants to believe the character is a 12 year old girl, then he is a fucking pedophile and we all agree, but how can you avoid that? By erasing every content of schoolgirl or young looking teens from the market? I assure you, a guy on the verge of pedophiliia, or even a pedophile himself will still find joy in other videos, in other material provided. My point is that you cant really help some guys buying material and adding their own imagination to the final product. No matter what the disclaimer says.

I do understand that what you and kelli (and Maxs5 if I recall correctly) among others are discussing is to avoid providing such material to some of this pedo consumers. That we dont really need this sort of attention to an already controversial community. It is a valid point and I agree to an extent.
However, teen porn (again +18 models) is NOT illegal.

Maybe im incorrectly using the term "teen", as english is not my main language and i might be transliterating from spanish. When I say "teen" I refer to already legal age women and men. But then again, we have the "legal age" issue in which this age differs from country to country. So what is legal to me, might be illegal to you, and there must be a country where teen porn is allowed for +16y girls for example and then that material is illegal (and immoral) to both of us. So what do we do?

I hope i can make myself clear and friendly at the same time, as im not used to debate in english.

Best regards.

[kelli]

eeeks, i have started the crap over here now, haven't i?

shootingmad, your english is better than most americans i know....so don't worry about that at all, hun. and if i inferred you are a pedophile, creep, or insane guy, i apologize.

however, i still maintain that any videos that depict young girls (under 18) being sexually molested and raped, even if its only pretend, sickens me. the only consolation is that if there are guys prone to that out there, maybe they are satisfied watching such videos and not actually ruining real girls' lives.

this is only my opinion, you don't have to agree with it. what i think isn't really important in the grand scheme of things anyway, is it? so just do whatever floats your boat....and ignore the opinionated redhead. hugs

[shootingmad]

Milady, you know i respect you. I respect your opinion.

im not intending to make this an argument again from what you said. I just think this is an interesting topic for debate since it involves different cultures and both customers and producers.

[Bluestone]

Kelli,

We are a pretty tolerate bunch over here, and we do love to debate issues. Everyone is free to hold an opinion and to take a position on any topic raised on this forum. Don't be concerned that you have started something controversial over here. I believe that I speak for everyone here (with the caveat that anyone can disagree with me on this point if they wish) when I say that we are very much interested in hearing your opinion on subjects such as this. Some of us will agree and some will disagree, but we totally respect you and your opinions on this subject matter. So, not to worry.

Shooting Mad,

I respect your fetish, just as I respect all fetishes that are represented here, as long as they remain fantasy fetishes, and in your case I have absolutely no doubt that you are no more a pedophile than I am a serial killer. The factors that unite us as a community are far greater than the details of our individual fetishes that differ one from another. AF used to have Petra dressed in school girl or cheerleader costumes with pig-tails. She looked adorable, and very sexy. I don't have a school girl fetish, but I use that image to help me identify with you and what you find attractive in such a fetish. So, we may not always share the same likes and dislikes, but no one here is in a position to throw the first stone

Blue

[Den-CnB]

Just a side note:

When I got my credit cards in 1998 and lost this provider when the credit cards would not take our material in 2002, the credit card company honestly felt than name of my site 'Cuddlynecrobabes' was 'Cuddly Negro Babies' (decided to call it CNB), The description of the site was to have simulated death by stabbing, shooting, strangling, etc. I kept correcting them about the name but was no use. I guess my site was allowed credits cards as some racist, pedophilia snuff site....

This was when credit card providers would take anything, the cops alone enforced illegal content and to top it off the guy who put the credit card package was black.

Dennis

[Max5s]

however, i still maintain that any videos that depict young girls (under 18) being sexually molested and raped, even if its only pretend, sickens me.

I agree with that completely. It also bothers me when the model is 18+, you know she's 18+, but she's dressed and acts much younger. There's that wink that says everything you are watching is legal, but you get the feeling that the target audience are people who get off on adolescents. The use of the word "teen" is meant to draw the individuals who want to see the 13-17 crowd, not the 18-19 year olds, otherwise they'd call them women or young adults.

But that's just my opinion.

[Storm9]

Hey all ... I have roamed here and there for some time..

Have been part of different forums over the years, and BEGGED to be let in here, to see yet ANOTHER woman, having trouble another forum. DUE to fact she is a woman, and we all know. THEY are NOT supposed to have opinions or ideas, that place...

Dalila was posting photos here, so had to get in to enjoy them ....

I was one of a few that sided with Kelli. Basically for 2 reasons .. 1 the red head, is very smart, and right to have her own opinion on things.. I can not remember, ever seeing this wonderful lady post, that something upset her like this.
SO it made it 100% valid in my eyes.

Plus unlike the claims later... IT WAS posted to SPLATTER and be in our faces, to sell the product.
Shock and awe, whatever. It was purposely posted as such.
2 problems... As we see with the U.K. mess, and the watch dogs around the globe.

WE out here, in the fetish world, are a target.
TO blatantly post that in OPEn forum, anyone can access. Is like shining a spotlight on all of us, saying here we are.
PAINT us all with the same brush as posting person.
THEY will not bother to look, and see some people did not go for it.
They will just point, and scream look all of them are like this, they must be stopped.

In a time, when ANY of our fetishes are suspect, and disliked by John Q public. It was very irreisponislbe to post in this way.
Poor Kelli was MADE the issue, by small minded men, that must really be intimidated by women with a mind, brain, and opinion.
I NEVER said anything against the fetish, in my response either. Yet they tried to turn it that way... and make it broder issue. AGAIN using shock and awe, in posting about other raw porn fetishes.
WHO knows maybe they felt some small guilt, and that maybe they had goofed. Yet Kelli should never have been made an issue of or treated the way they did.
Certain unamed perons there still happily stirring it in other posts.
The lady simply was being honest and voicing a concern.

TO that I say .... WELL done lady... you have my utmost respect and admiration, for just being you !!
As was said, long ago in history, if we do not allow an opinion to be heard, who is to say it may be we that are forced into silence next.
They did not want to hear her, because they where enjoying it. Simple as that.
Kind of like the guilty man, who replies I did not do
it, before even hearing the question.

TO those of you broad minded enough to listen to her, and repsect her, enen if you do not agree. Well done, and let the lady feel able to have fun, yet voice her opinion, just as you would any other member of the forum.
KELLI you have nothing to apologize for.... you matter, and your opinion does as well. So keep your head up, and some of us are glad to listen.

[Bluestone]

Well said, Storm9! We are always willing to listen to Kelli. If we all shared the same opinion, it would be a pretty boring world. Some people here may disagree with Kelli, but we want to hear from her and all others, especially on issues that people have strong feelings about. No one should be attacked or denigrated for stating an honest opinion. That's just wrong. Also, no one should feel that they cannot disagree with Kelli, me or anyone else on this forum, provided, of course, that it is done in a civil manner. Thanks again, Storm9, for contributing.

Blue

[Lydia]

Great to see you here Kelli!

[kelli]

Great to see you here Kelli!

thank you so much, lydia.....nice to see you too!