Will Pirates Kill This Industry???!!!

[Geno]

I am still voting YES to see producers go out of Business, but I am voting NO on Piracy. Chton more than likely will be voting NO on wanting to see fetish producers go out of business and ,,,YES on Piracy. Don't get mad Bluestone. You should never hold a member's vote against them or retaliate against them, especailly when you asked for it.

Next question: First of all I am not into n*cro-anything....especial -philla. I am into fantasy death only.

Not that all fetish producers will go out of business due to piracy, but it they did? I would go through some real withdrawal symtoms. I would have to revert back to the days of yester-years when I search movies for something the came close, when I exchanged custom written stories, and my favorite form of fantasy fulfilment, roleplaying with a female adult! :idea:

DeadSkirts? Actually that site was structured to adjust to any change in the fantasy death communities. It can accept all forms of media, communication and imagery concerning the fetish and will adjust to whatever the enviorment is out there, right down to just sharing written text if it came to that.

In the meantime here is how the voting stands:

1. Geno votes YES on Wanting to see Fetish producers go out of business. He'll vote NO on Piracy, and in the meantime will continue to PAY for the the clips he sees.

2. Chton very likely would vote NO on wanting Fetish Producers to go out of business, He would vote YES on Piracy, and will continue to watch those same custome clips for FREE!.

I hope you can see the difference between the two, Bluestone.

[Bluestone]

Not really, Geno

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Why you think I would retaliate or get mad is beyond me. I don't think you can speak for another member though. Chton can certainly speak for himself, and knows that I don't retaliate even though I may not share his opinions on piracy. What! Is this Grade 1. I thought we were all adults here. I don't expect everybody to always agree with me. That would simply be childish.

Oh, by the way, "necro" is used by me not in the context of necrophilia, but as a common substitute for the longer phrase, erotic death fetish. I don't usually get off on having sex with dead bodies... but I do have an open mind on that fetish too

Blue

[Geno]

Speaking for Mr. Chton? No he has already spoken. All I did was put in context. I couldn't have gotten the information any other way.

Chton obviously does not take a stance against piracy like the dude Geno does.

Chton thinks Bluestone efforts to correct copyright violations is a watsed effort.

Chton fails to accurately calculate your determination and intolerance to piracy, you will track them down and demand they be taken down from whateve unauthoized website they happen to be on. Maybe it's just a scratch on the suface, but still worth it. :

Chton fails to factor in that even if a fetish producer can withstand the blows of piracy, he or she may still drop out of the business anyway, just on principle.

Chton fails to factor in the million of dollars loss anually to piracy can really have both a financial and psychological effects on a fetish producer, that may mean the end.

Chton wants, and may be getting it both ways for now, (In production producers and Free Clips) but even that has it limits.


Chton was right about one statment he made. Very much so, and that is when he said this...

I always believe that people will pay to support a quality product, even if free versions are available.

Dudes like that old Geno, will likely continue to pay for them, they come across free versions sometimes.

Geno

[Bluestone]

Yes, Geno, there are all kinds of factors that influence producers as to whether they pack it in or not. One is piracy. Another is burn-out. My good friend Cash of CashTV burned out and retired before the UK law was introduced. I haven't seen him around the boards ever since, and really miss him. Although he wasn't technically a producer, more like a G-Man clone, he is a good example of a webmaster who had enough, and up and disappeared. Paul of KHP has recently stepped back from operating a members' site requiring weekly updates. Sometimes, producers get depressed and discouraged with the hassles of ebilling woes, and the many other challenges of running an Internet business, and just figure it isn't worth it. Often, this world takes over, and one's real life is put on hold. Several message board posters have left the boards to reclaim their 'normal' existence. I don't know about the other producers, but if I put in the same hours at my regular job that I put into this business, I'd make several times the money that I make here. I do it for the enjoyment. The money is always secondary... and if I get really pissed off, I could very easily double my income by NOT doing this business

Blue
(P.S. Luckily, I enjoy working with Suzi, Petra, Kerie and the rest too much to get that pissed off )

[chton]

I personally find it disturbing for people to put words in my mouth. I note that whenever I bring up this issue of hypocrisy I'm always labeled a pirate, by people who know not one thing about me. Perhaps I know a lot about piracy from experience in protecting copyrights, perhaps I even have seen real analysis done of the actual effects of piracy as opposed to the kne jerk reaction of people who are being stolen from. Anyways believe what you want about piracy ( youtube is a pittance compared to what goes on on P2P networks, so while it may make people feel better or like they're accomplishing anything, sadly that's a drop in the bucket and good luck policing that community) and do what you feel you must but it's not going away. I find there hasn't been any lessening of piracy, yet I still see a fair number of producers who seem active and solvent despite it. I find hyperbolic doomsday predictions to be silly, unless you are policing the P2P community you're not denting real piracy and thus you might as well sit still, your sites and others will still be in existence, they are right now and you really are doing anything to combat it. Perhaps you might even get more sales from the free advertising, but people will believe what they want. I note the RIAA hasn't been as strident against piracy of late and yet there appear to be a few successful studios out there. Before anyone claims how much different the industries are I submit to you that the difference in scale of product to consumers is probably close enough to parallel. But then again what do I know I'm just a pirate.
I personally wouldn't want to stake my defense on the fair use exemption, but again I'm not getting paid to advise you.
As to the poll idea, a poll's data is only as good as it's question and you question, no disrespect intended is bullshit and that's exactly what you'd get as an answer. What if you asked how would you like to get pay site videos for free? Would that be a valid poll question?
Anyways, differing opinions are great, that's what makes life intriguing. Still some would say opinions can't be wrong, but if your opinion is 2+2=5, your opinion is wrong. Not saying that's the case here, but I think some people are too close to the issue to have an unbiased opinion.

[Bluestone]

Well said, my friend! I will now stop commenting on this thread, get back to my editing, and let the other members have their say. Your points are quite valid. I definately am too close to this topic to be unbiased. So, I'm voluntarily stepping aside. It's time for some other members' opinions to be heard

Blue

[chton]

Well said, my friend! I will now stop commenting on this thread, get back to my editing, and let the other members have their say. Your points are quite valid. I definately am too close to this topic to be unbiased. So, I'm voluntarily stepping aside. It's time for some other members' opinions to be heard

Blue

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this like rational adults and really enjoy your free speech attitude. I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest or make you change policies or anything. I'm just expressing my not so humble opinion. I enjoy the site and wish you well in your endeavors. I would like to hear some new people chime in though, just curious to see some other opinions.

[shootingmad]

I agree with chton in most of what he says.

I do believe, as well, that piracy is a lost battle for any producer in the world. Same concept with computer viruses. You can try to develop antiviruses, protections and such and you will eventually get new viruses and means of infection.

When Playstation 3 came to the market, it was very hard to find any pirated copies of the games. Of course, its engineering was perfectioned to avoid piracy. However, reversed engineering allowed piracy in the long run.
Same happens with computers. This year, a very well known game for most soccer management fans called "Football Manager 2009" lasted longer than its predecesors before it got a fake copy released in p2p.

Basically, with the new upcoming technology you get to develop new and new ways of protecting your stuff, but it will get violated in the long run and piracy will rule it. So all you have left is laws of copyright and Chton has already expressed most of its difficulty.

One funny note: a well known writer (cant recall his name right now) gave away free copies of his work (by uploading it on the web). Of a book he wrote actually. Same concept than with piracy. To get stuff for free. He decided it was the best way to fight piracy... and guess what. As people started reading and liking it, they decided to purchase THAT SAME book.

Im not saying this should apply for everything and convert into an example for any producer that complaints about piracy. Im just saying that, maybe it is time to think about plan B, considering piracy will probably always be your shadow in the market.

Regards.

[Geno]

I,m definately am too close to this topic to be unbiased. So, I'm voluntarily stepping aside. It's time for some other members' opinions to be heard Blue

Don't run away From this Thread Now Bluestone :-( ..This topic was started by you on Sunday, March 17, 2009. Members have had plenty of time to responds, or disregard the post. Maybe the board has been a little to slow for you over these last few months, but when you start a thread, that's not the time flee it. No one said that anyone of your active member couldn't join in...at any point they wish. Why do you have to step aside Bluestone? FF members are welcome to post on this thread at anytime whether you are hear, or not, before, after, and during your postings here.

Your are in the middle pro-piracy opinions here.

You have been told not to worry about it! You been told just to brush it aside and accept the losses.

You know very those well those opinions about piracy are unacceptable to you, and you are not going to follow the laxed advice they are suggesting.

Now is not the time run away and leave, but you need to stay right here and explain to them, that believe it as they may , piracy will not tolorated when discovered. You never said that you could stop piracy altogether Bluestone. A couple of member are failing to add up your satisfaction when you do bust the limited violations of piracy that you do find on the World Wide Web.

Look here Bluestone...you have your fellow webmasters on alert and watching out for you. I have some of my best members help me to be on the lookout for posted versions of your clips on the web. The last thing I want to hear Bluestone, is a DeadSkirts member comming up to me saying. "Well I posted the Silk Videos because I was reading on FemmeFatalities the other day, that Bluestone was "stepping aside" on the issue of piracy. So he really doesn't care anymore if we post his clips up or not." The post has been up for 17 days Bluestone.

Geno

[chton]

I'm all about taking principled stands, even if they don't do anything but make the person feel better, but that's all you are doing. And you're ok with that then go ahead. Just remember that the the sweet taste of vindication can turn to ashes in your mouth. Again I'm not trying to tell you what to do or how to run your site, just letting you know the harsh reality of trying to enforce copyrights on the internet. There are whole communities of pirates sharing everything under the sun, while keeping IP off of youtube and sites within the community is easy and certainly has some impact, I ask you to down load a P2P client and search for you works, the amount available will probably shock you. If you think that people in this community don't share these files you are kidding yourself. They simply don't post them where they will attract the producers attention.
If you are cool with fighting a forest fire with a bucket, then go for it. I'm not saying your satisfaction isn't worth anything, just a reality check of what your efforts and the efforts of others to point out such violations really accomplish. I still think a certain portion of people will always take the cheap easy way out and a portion will do what's right even if it costs them. Accepting that and realizing which type of person you are is worth something all it's own.

[Geno]

All types of crimes are commited everyday in America.

From vadalism, car-jacking thefts, robberies, and just because they do occur does not mean we should get passive and allow it to be done. Bluestone does not need to "step aside" he need to use every opportunity to educate. He been on the more heavily travelled DeadSkirts and has told his fellow members there, that piracy is wrong. Beside shutting down sources where Bluestone finds his clips bootlegged, he needs to use every opportunity to educate people on the damage and lose the piracy causes.

Movie piracy is a multi-billion dollar black market. Even kids are appart of it. Many thousand are doing it only because they think is a victimless crime. It's not. It hurts the industy and has been the reason for failure of many smaller independant flim companies. One should be educating people about the consquences of piracy on all forms of productions in the entertainment Industry.

Whenever you have any given crime, you need to make sure the laws are enforced against it. In the meantime, you educate people on the evils of the crime (in this case Piracy). If you don't, than whatever crime it's not enforced, will completely take over as if it was 100% legal. For example vadalism is illegal. Defacing the wall of private property is illegal. So if you don't enforce the law at all, everyone gets there houses and offices covered with graffiti. Another example, We have car theives arounds and thieves around. They steal many cars every year. If the law was not enforce at all, every other person would be a victim of car theft. Thus the rules is: If you don't enforce the law when applicable, then many many more people will commit the crime, and every other person would have their car stolen.

Is Bluestone going to come back and say, it's ok folks, you can post my videos on YouTube, RapidShare, on message boards like DeadSkirts. I give up. Or will he use every opportunity to get the word out that it is wrong and he will enforce every incident that he catches?

Geno

[Bluestone]

Okay, Geno, I'm back on the thread, but only to clarify. Here goes:

1. I didn't say I was stepping aside from protecting my copyrights from piracy. I actively protect my copyrights. If a board posts them, and the board's moderator does not take them down, I threaten the host server with a lawsuit unless the entire board is taken down from their server. I don't play around!!! I am VERY, VERY serious about stomping on pirates every chance that I get. I personally don't care whether Chton thinks I'm hypocritical or not, because the 'critical' part of that word is the most important. It is critical for my business to stop as much piracy as possible, and, Yes Geno, to educate as many people as possible that there will be no new Bluestone videos unless my loyal customers continue to support my site and help me to root out and destroy as many pirates as possible. I thought that I'd made my point quite clearly earlier on this thread.

2. I decided to step aside from this discussion, not because I thought that I was losing the debate, but because I'd said my piece, and I don't want to monopolize this thread. I know that others can step in any time, but sometimes people feel uncomfortable injecting their thoughts into what appears to be a two or three party debate. Chton and I have had a good debate, but I think it's time that we heard from everyone else on this subject. Once again, this is not just Bluestone's Soapbox, it's a discussion board where everyone's opinion counts.

So, once again, I turn this thread over to the other 1,300 or so registered members out there. We don't bite (well, I can't speak for my friend, Geno, but most of us don't bite), so let your voices be heard!

Fly-on-the-wall Blue

[Geno]

Ok Chton, you win this round with Bluestone. Point taken.

For some reason Bluestone is acting too passive and uncaring right now. Passing up a golden opportinunity like this to educate his members and the countless visitors who couldn't post if then wanted too, on the evils of piracy. I read re assure you one thing, the next time he finds one of his clips up on a free site, he going to whine and holler like big baby. You won't here him talking about "stepping aside". You will know it's him!...because Bluestone will be crying the loudest when it happens! You can quote that Chton.

Geno

P.S About those 1300 members? Be far from me to quote anything G-Man says, but even broken clock is [right twice aday. G-Man will tell you from his years experience with Femmegore, that those are not members who are actively posting on this board, they are just the same as visitors when then don't post. Bluestone has the audience but it not using it effectively

[chton]

What exactly is he going to educate people about? That some copyrights are worth more than others, because that's all the hypocritical attitude says. Any producer who advertises on, owns or contributes to a site that ignores other copyrights is certainly educating people something about copyrights; some copyrights matter and some don't. do you ever wonder why some people who innocently post "banned" materials act surprised..it's because there is generally complete and total disregard of copyrights going on all over most boards. I guess the message is do as I say not as I do.
Again not to single anyone out or be overly harsh, but that's my not so humble opinion. If you don't respect others copyrights it's downright silly to expect others to respect yours. If you want to educate people on your theory that piracy will kill this particular niche, that's fine but be honest and don't mention copyrights. I wonder how Bluestone would react if he got angry cease and desist from major studios or if they went to his ISP and demanded he be shut down. Would he feel the same vindication?
Sadly no one else seems to want to join in and I'm tired of dealing with the childish passive aggressive tactics being employed here to try to stir something up.

[Geno]

Sadly no one else seems to want to join in and I'm tired of dealing with the childish passive aggressive tactics being employed here to try to stir something up

Oh come on. it's way beyond stiring something up now. We're in the homestretch. There no need for another member to run away. The members don't want to participate in this discussion because it has been planted in the minds of many here, that Bluestone is conducting illegal copyright infringements operations. What are they going to tell them? Refund my membership? No, but some might not renew. I know one member he is not going to get a red cent from. Bluestone is no help because he had decided to step aside and take a severe trashing, as if what was being said here saying was true or a real problem.

What has been said here about the accusations of copyright infringements is not going to help the sales of FemmeFatalities memberships. Most people are honest and that has an effect on their decision of whether or not to join. That's why the argument for copyright violations appears to be stronger. Bluestone has taken a cock-roach on the wall attitude about it without countering it. That's what I mean by educating people about it.

They only thing I can add in defence of a guy, who won't defend his site policies, is that all we have heard here is really just theory about the law. There are laws against stepping on, and spitting on,cracks in the sidewalk,but that does not mean law agencies are going to enforce that law. Now acutally practice of the copyright law, Bluestone can look upon the years of experience G-Man has when he ran Femmegore ,in a simular manner ,without actual physical , legal trouble.

Geno