Is 'Hardcore Sex' Coupled With 'Violence' Illegal???

[kelli]

Peace on Earth.....Good Will To Men...oh wait, never mind

As usual, the sounds of knuckles dragging the ground in here is almost deafening.

Someone put me out of my misery......please!

[Bluestone]

Hey Guys and Dolls,

Just checking in after a very joyfilled Christmas day, and I am amazed at the range of posts on this thread.

I must say that, although I've given Dr. Don a great deal of leeway, taking into account how he's been dragged through the legal system for years at great personal cost, and is one of the founding fathers of our community, I have to say that I am very disappointed in the name-calling and lack of respect of others' opinions and fetishes that has been clearly demonstrated here.

Don, you have never been under attack on this thread. Please remember that we are all on your side in wanting the best for this community and for it to survive. That doesn't, however, mean that we all have to agree with everything that you say and every argument that you make. I have been fully trained as a logical thinker and debater. You are seeing one side of a court battle... the defense side. You and your lawyers have to consistently argue that they are right and that the prosecution is wrong. Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that a good lawyer has to be prepared to argue both sides of a case, and try to convince a judge and jury that they are right. That is their job. To say that everyone whose arguments do not align with yours should shut the fuck up, would not be acceptable in a court of law, and is not acceptable here. As you know, in Canada, counsel refers to opposing counsel as "My friend". "I'm sorry, Your Honour, but a fear that my friend is in error with his line of reasoning in this matter." You don't ever hear a lawyer say, "Judge, the prosecution is a jack ass and should shut the fuck up!!!!" So, I suggest that on this forum we should at least be as civil to one another as those slimy lawyers are in that flawed judicial system.

I totally agree with Don with respect to violent porn being a red flag that may cause our producers' credit card accounts to be pulled. This is a serious concern, but no matter how serious I believe this concern to be, we must maintain civility, avoid name-calling, and allow all members to freely voice their opinions without fear of being made to look foolish for their posts.

Blue

[Dr Don]

My comment is of course based upon Paul's assertion that it was done, which I don't know from my own knowledge.

Why not hold your comments to yourself until you know the facts then? I mean, why give any credibility to what KHP says by repeating what he said and using it to make the comments you did. The reason I got so upset with KHP is because I know how some people's minds work....and when they hear shit like that....some people believe it...and some people repeat it and embellish it like you just did....and many people ignore the disclaimer you put at the end of what you said......that's why I get so pisst off with his mouth....and you just proved my point. You cannot break open a feather pillow and then expect to get all the feathers back in....some of those feathers(lies) get spread around and form rumors and cause prejudice to me.

Do you really think you know more than I do about my case, or how to conduct myself, what not to say, what to say, etc. Who are you?

What KHP is talking about is my response to the initial charges which was almost 10 yrs ago. KHP and you know NOTHING about what really went on back then....and you know even less about what went on in the last three years.

But of course, this thing with KHP, and now you....is all my fault right?

[Dr Don]

Don, you have never been under attack on this thread. Blue

Quoting KHP: Yeah, well let me go on record now as saying I do not, repeat, do NOT think JohnM's work is trash or garbage or any of those other words used to describe it just now and I believe that talk to be degrading as well. I just happen to think it's a bad idea enlight of things. I know JohnM could sale just as well without doing it so I wish he just would. I personally can not wait to see his new stab video he's promised!

I consider that the first attack Blue....because I never said John M's work is trash or garbage.

Jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth is a malicious personal attack.

You want more proof of attacks, lies, false assumptions, insults, false conclusions? Just let me know....I've been reading back over this entire thread and I challenge anyone to do the same....and keep in mind that KHP has attacked me consistently every single time I surface to make a comment in the past, so KHP has earned my disgust....not my respect.

Like I said, it's easy to sit back and make smug comments like, "can't you all just get along" or blame me because I'm not a regular member here and I have no ties to any of you.

I take no blame for my disgust with KHP and my lack of respect for him which is righteously due to his malicious manner.

When he learns to show respect for me and stop throwing his ignorant malicious speculations out on these forums to cause me harm, then, I will show him mutual respect, and not before that happens.

[Dr Don]

You are seeing one side of a court battle... the defense side.

Excuse me? I only see one side? Are you kidding me?

Me and my lawyer sat through 3 weeks of preliminary hearings, then a three week trial, we sifted through massive amounts of disclosure, and studied the Crown's case backwards forwards and inside out. I have personally studied every theory and angle of their case for 9 years.

So please don't Don't tell me and all your members on a public forum that I only see one side of the case...that is deeply insulting and wreckless of you to make that statement as if you are privy to all the facts.

Do me a favor......all of you....and stop speculating about my case...you are not doing me any good whatsoever by doing this.

I hope that no one believes what you just said....because it's flat out false.

[Max5s]

When is enough enough Max5s? When does the point come when a person can say enough of his bullshit is enough?

It's always easy to step in from a position of comfort....where you are not the one on the receiving end of the disrespectful and prejudicial lies of a fool.

Jesus himself would have called him worse....so please....don't you preach to me.

It comes when you can express yourself without invectiveness or opining for a chance to "go a few rounds" with the person you are debating. Paul is no fool, and you should study what I'm assuming are your Christian beliefs, before making any assumptions about what Jesus would or wouldn't say.

[Dalila di Capri]

Wait a minute:

Let's take a deep breath here and remember that Blue, Paul KHP, and Dr Don all agree that hard core porn mixed with erotic horror is an invitation for more trouble than we want.

Given that I really don't understand why there is a continuing argument here.

I also think that we should all keep in mind the fact that Don has lived through and is continuing to live through the nightmare that the rest of us want to avoid.

For that reason he is rightfully a little more sensitive than the typical producer.

I would not want to be in his position and I am supportive of him in it. He would not be the first producer to lose his temper nor will he be the last.

Now don't make me lose my temper or I will have to put all of you over my knee

Baci

[Dr Don]

You don't ever hear a lawyer say, "Judge, the prosecution is a jack ass and should shut the fuck up!!!!" Blue

This isn't a court room Blue, and KHP is not worthy of my respect at this time. Please don't preach to me about court room conduct. For you to even think for one second that I need advice from you on conduct is insulting. This is a forum, not a court room. If you want to preach conduct, preach it to KHP. I suggest you read back over the forum, and keep in mind KHP's past attacks on me....which I have never received an apology for by the way.

Now you told me KHP would not bother me, and the first chance he got....he was right under my skin....as posted and quoted above.....how I responded to him was appropriate in my opinion. Then he wanted to carry it on. So your promise isn't panning out here Blue.

On top of that you come on here and make more prejudicial statements about me...as pointed out above....so WTF?

I can see you play favorites, and I can see the more I hang around here the more you and KHP are going to be condescending and prejudicial in your assumptions and false conclusions about me and my case.

You both have made damaging false statements about me on your forum...so I'm outta here.

[Dr Don]

Wait a minute:

Let's take a deep breath here and remember that Blue, Paul KHP, and Dr Don all agree that hard core porn mixed with erotic horror is an invitation for more trouble than we want.

Given that I really don't understand why there is a continuing argument here.

I also think that we should all keep in mind the fact that Don has lived through and is continuing to live through the nightmare that the rest of us want to avoid.

For that reason he is rightfully a little more sensitive than the typical producer.

I would not want to be in his position and I am supportive of him in it. He would not be the first producer to lose his temper nor will he be the last.

Now don't make me lose my temper or I will have to put all of you over my knee

Baci

Thank you Dalila, but I'm sensitive because KHP has consistently attacked me with false assumptions about me and my case, false accusations aimed at defaming me, false conclusions, damaging speculations, foolish musings, putting words in my mouth etc. and he has never apologized. As soon as I come on this board, what does he do? He goes right back at it.

Max5s, you are wrong about this one. KHP started it, and like a defiant ill behaved child that needs a spank....KHP needs a spanking. That's my opinion....and as a parent of two straight "A" honor students who are both one year ahead of their peers in high school; and having home schooled both of them until they went into public school at 5th grade; and having been Mr. Mom to them; and since they are the best behaved and most respectful kids you can imagine; and since they went through all this trial bullshit which also effected them; I believe it's no stretch for me to say you are WRONG about me. My opinion KHP needs a serious attitude adjustment is very well qualified as a parent that has two very respectful and intelligent children. In fact, 2 years in a row my daughter has been given the Principal's Gold Academic achievement award for having the highest average in her High School...for 10th grade she got a 96.83 average.

The whole point of that rant is this: I am more than qualified to determine that KHP needs a good solid attitude adjustment...and I feel like a parent or teacher who is faced with an unruly spoiled little child that needs a good attitude adjustment. I don't feel I am out of line at all in my opinion, or my chastisement of him.

And Max5s....I have 45 years of bible study behind me, as well as a ministerial degree. I ain't preaching the bible, and I don't need to be reminded of what it says. I do however appreciate your concern over my harsh words directed at KHP. But, I hear people making excuses for KHP's conduct....maybe because you are all used to it......but don't cut him slack unless you are prepaired to cut me that same slack for my comments back at him. That's just the way I am with KHP or anyone else who attacks me in a disrespectful manner.

[Peter]

Now don't make me lose my temper or I will have to put all of you over my knee

*Puts hand up.*

Oh! Oh! Me! Me!

[Dalila di Capri]

I just took a very close look at the previous pages of this thread.

Don's first post was voiced as a warning to John M. His tone was calm. He seems to be showing personal respect to John M, but warning him about mixing hard core sex with hard core violence.

It isn't any different in substance than what Paul KHP was saying to John M before.

Paul however posted a statement that he is not criticising the quality of John M's work. (though he was clearly criticising the content) It seems to be implied that he was rebutting an assertion that he assumes was made by Dr Don: That John M himself is putting out poor material.

Nowhere does Don say that about John M.

Once Paul made his "rebuttal" statement Don took offense and threw some insults at Paul.

It has gone down hill from here.

As I said before perhaps some of you think that Don is overly sensitive. I think he has good reason to be that way. I ask again: Do any of you want to be going through what he has already gone through?

Was that not the reason Paul was arguing with John M in the first place?

I am not going to tell Paul what to do, and I am not going to tell Don how to behave, but what I see is an already uneasy relationship between these two producers exploding into a new flame war initially because of an assuption on Paul's part that was incorrect.

Nowhere in Don's original post does he attack John M's quality. That is not my opinion. It is clear from the post itself.

Now these are our community's two best FX producers. I respect the work of both men. I would like to see some peace here, and I don't want to see "He started it...no he started it"

I would hope that the rest of you would encourage a cooling of tempers on both sides of the argument, especially when considering once again that when it comes to the over all topic of the thread Paul and Don are in agreement: Hard Core Sex and Erotic Horror are a combination that can get producers in real trouble.

Let some cooler heads come forward please.

baci

[Bluestone]

Don,

I would suggest that you take a deep breath, count to 10, and re-read this thread again as I have. There has been no unprovoked attack against you. No one is playing favourites here. You don't have to take my advice, but I'm certainly free to give it. We know each other, but we don't know everything about each other. You feel that you're an expert at law because you have been the accused in one case. Cut me some slack, Don. Without any over-exaggeration whatsover, I have much more experience in the law than you do, and I could feel far more insulted by your comments than you have a right to feel insulted by Paul's opinions. I'm not demanding an apology from you, but I am asking that you show my members and I a modicum of respect. I have ensured that you have had a forum for your opinions and your beliefs on violent porn. No one has attacked you, but you have been through a lot, you remember past arguments from another forum, and I can understand that you are reacting accordingly, but I am asking you to please re-consider the brawl that you are aching for with Paul (KHP), shelve it, and let's get back to positive discussions on a topic that all three of us basically agree upon.

Blue

[Bluestone]

Well, this subject has raised a lot of controversy, not necessary directly related to the subject matter. I have also followed the sister topic at DS where Geno considered banning violent porn producers, some of whom are permitted advertisers on FF. John Matrix, who started this topic, indicated that he was not looking for censorship against these advertisers. Geno seems at a loss to understand what is then being proposed by John Matrix. I'm wondering myself. Sure, we've raised a concern that violent porn may bring undue attention to our community coupled with the potential loss of credit card services, but there appears to be no concrete proposals for dealing with this potential threat to our community. I'm personally not in favour of censorship, unless something is clearly illegal, such as child porn. So, has the line been crossed or not? I guess that's the question.

Blue

[bellystabs]

Thank you Dalila, but I'm sensitive because KHP has consistently attacked me with false assumptions about me and my case, false accusations aimed at defaming me...

Max5s, you are wrong about this one. KHP started it...

Jesus himself would have called him worse...

To me it seems ironic that John Matrix is no longer a member here, but a post of his has now devolved into DrDon invoking the name of Jesus to condemn Paul, much like John Matrix did in his own misplaced hatred of Paul.

DrDon, in the slim hope that this will diffuse some of your hatred towards Paul, I am posing a question for your consideration since you said you like to stick with the facts. Have you ever stopped to consider that Geno is really the one who started all this by writing a post on DS in Paul's name that falsely accused you of child porn?

He used that same fraudulent and illegal tactic by writing another inflammatory post which stirred up intense anger between Paul and Blue -- and that lasted for quite a while too. The truth of Geno's despicable behavior came to light recently. Geno removed the incriminating evidence from DS, but not before he was exposed on FF. The gig was up; he was caught red-handed. http://www.femmefatalities.com/phpBB3/v ... &sk=t&sd=a

Before that discovery, John Matrix and Pennpaul came over here to defend you against those false CP charges attributed to Paul. In their rabid zeal, they attacked Paul and disrupted this board as they conspired in varying degrees with Geno. Geno used them as unwitting pawns in some ways, and in other ways they were simply willing accomplices. They were all banned.

I am not naively (or sarcastically) advocating "peace on earth, good will to men," but in my opinion, Paul and FF are not your enemies, even though Geno may want you to believe that.

[smudger]

I never named anyone's work in particular, so go make yourself useful and lick your balls somewhere pup.

Yeah, well let me go on record now as saying I do not, repeat, do NOT think JohnM's work is trash or garbage or any of those other words used to describe it just now and I believe that talk to be degrading as well. I just happen to think it's a bad idea enlight of things. I know JohnM could sale just as well without doing it so I wish he just would. I personally can not wait to see his new stab video he's promised!

And that was who threw the first stone. That was the first personal insult posted. Criticism of someone's work, or their opinions, is always OK in a discussion. Personal insults are not. They are the weapon of someone who is not able to give a reasoned reply.