This is where you will find discussions on all things relating to female death scenes from movies, T.V. and genre productions.
Also, try FF CHAT! Click on this link to go there: chat
Kelli is as sexy as hell, so I would kill her... but only in my fantasies. Kelli, I am happy that you've had an epiphany. Please never feel that you cannot post your opinions here. Not everyone may share your opinions, but I'm sure many do and everyone should respect everyone else's opinions.
Paul, the Blue Devil also respects your opinions on the subject of discussions such as these, but does not agree. Many people here find these discussions very interesting and also useful in helping them to come to grips with their fetish. You must remember that, although you have read many such threads and are obviously very comfortable with your fetish, there are many here who are still struggling with theirs. It's not only the posters who read and enjoy these discussions, it's the lurkers, many of whom may be new to this community and have not even got to the point of posting to share their thoughts with the rest of us. If we were to curtail subjects such as this, our community would be poorer, not richer, as a result.
Having said this, no one is being forced to read or contribute to these threads. There are a lot of threads here that are not deep and controversial at all, but only full of fun and frivolity. If some people prefer to read and post on those threads, that's fine, but I encourage all others to continue to contribute to this thread as well as the other discussion threads on this forum. Oh, and Kelli, that includes you. You don't have to silence yourself. Post whenever the mood hits you. Oh, and as for those lurkers, we'd love to hear from you too. The more opinions, the better the discussion, and the more that everyone will get out of it
All of which is respectfully submitted.
Blue
Bluestone's Silk Videos - Producer of Sexy Crime Dramas and Superheroine Films featuring HOT actresses!
I do stay current and have seen some more recent films of yours.
They may not be from this past year, but they are relatively recent, as recent as 2008 unless I am completely off on the dates.
I saw solid lighting, decent acting, fantastic special effects, basically everything I am saying that I see and admire in your work.
Now if you have not seen anything of mine from say 2008 or so I would invite you to take a look at it.
You are a fellow producer so if you want to trade clips I would be more than happy to do so.
But keep in mind that unless what you were posting at CnB last year was horribly old I was watching what you were doing, I was impressed, and I still hold to my assessment that we approach filmmaking from very different perspectives.
I also know that you have particuarly hard feelings about Penn.
Now do you really want to compare a fellow producer such as myself, who expresses admiration for your work, to someone such as Penn with whom you have fought openly on this board?
Do you desire such a war with me as well?
If so, and if you were to start such a war, I hate to tell you this but you will come off looking like an oaf. I am meaning you nothing but respect and sincere friendliness as a fellow producer.
If you don't like my work as much as I like yours, I can live with that.
But really, to compare my comments to the relationship you have with Penn? That seems a bit over the top.
As for telling me what to say and what not to say...well come now. I think you know that I am going to say what I please.
Ok this is back to normal, the way I would want it between us.
What I mean to say is that from what I have seen of your work I know you to be one hell of a producer. Obvioulsy your special effects are top notch, and yes the thing that compares in my films to your special effects work is my stage craft. There is no sin in pointing out our strengths.
My more recent films offer solid FX. Not as good as yours, but certainly respectable.
I will bet that your story lines are much more complex than your work from 5 years ago, just as my FX are much smoother than they were 5 years ago. (We are actually re-mastering the old films so that the FX are at least current.)
And no, it's not as though we have beers (or even whoppers) on a regular basis together.
But as I say we have a professional relationship, and much in common.
Neither one of us suffers idiots very well
We both strive to put out the best material we can
We both strive to improve
We both enjoy a seeing a good stabbing to the belly (A female one that is)
Those are some pretty solid reasons to stay friendly with each other on a public forum.
So if I do contrast or compare our styles it is only to show how two producers who strive for excellence can approach things in very different ways and still come up with satisfying material.
I could also compare my films to Blue's. We in fact have very similar styles:
We both have the silk and satin curtains, glamour and cheesecake.
We are two high glam producers, and so far we get along very well.
This isn't to say that you don't do glamour sometimes, or that I don't have something a little more gritty. It's just a matter of general branding.
OH BTW I don't drink much but when I do I drink beer. So that could very well be something else we have in common.
You never know. We may have a beer together one day.
Suggest your favorite Belly stabbing video, something you think I would enjoy that represents your most recent work. (If you have an excellent gutting video again please let me know about it and I will watch it. Those are my personal favorites )
I will go to nicheclips and order it.
You are correct in pointing out the advantage I have in that I am my own model.
I am however branching out and working with other girls.
You will see this material soon.
I do think however that you may also want to watch soemthing I have produced more recently as well.
I would strongly suggest the shootout from "Time to say Goodbye" (part 5)
I'd like to see us all have more time so that we can shoot higher quality work.
This is what I am doing now myself. I am filming most of the scenes I need to do before hand so that when the model shows up I can concentrate on just my work with her.
I would also not underestimate the power of a good menacing male killer.
You are excellent at that from what I have seen. (And I know that I told you that when we spoke over the phone that one time.)
So again this is where I wanted this entire thing to be: Two producers talking about their craft, perhaps disagreeing about certain aspects of production, but offering mutual respect.
We are adult erotic horror, which inherently includes various elements of porn.
As for the comments made in this thread, while I respect the opinions of others who've posted here, I will say only this:
When shit happens in real life, that is tragic, and I feel sorry for the people effected. But my fetish has nothing to do with reality. They are two completely separate things.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my fetish, or fantasizing about women in peril, because that is all they will ever be - harmless fantasies. As such, I will never apologize for my fetish, I will never feel ashamed or guilty for having it, and I will always support the content producers who help feed it.
i submit the incident that occurred in Calif. last weekend in which several young men gang raped and beat a 15 year old girl while a crowd of people stood and watched. Nobody attempted to stop the attack for over 2 hours. I can't even wrap my head around that.....how can such savagery happen and be condoned by all eye-witnesses?
FEAR
That is one reason these eyewitnesses condoned this inhuman event. Fear that they would be hurt themselves...that they would have to bear witness against the perpetrators and then, by doing so, become victims of those very perps.
I won't even begin (though, I am now) to mention all the press coverage these eyewitnesses would have to endure, the constant barrage of phone calls at all hours, the seemingly endless solicitation for their story to be used to sell newspapers and magazines.
FASCINATION
Another reason they did nothing. They were, as most people are, fascinated by the horrible scene unfolding before them. They were but moths drawn to a flame, as are those of us who slow down and crane our necks when we see a terrible car wreck. Like the audience at the coliseum, recklessly cheering the lion on while sighing with relief that it is not them the beast is pouncing upon.
CONDITIONING (some may use the term: DESENSITIZATION)
Conditioned by reality to act against their instinct to give aid, to quell their impulse to heroic action. They are second guessing what they should do because they have been conditioned to not do the right thing. This conditioning makes people think of themselves first, as opposed to thinking of others.
Nyghtfall wrote:We are adult erotic horror, which inherently includes various elements of porn.
As for the comments made in this thread, while I respect the opinions of others who've posted here, I will say only this:
When shit happens in real life, that is tragic, and I feel sorry for the people effected. But my fetish has nothing to do with reality. They are two completely separate things.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my fetish, or fantasizing about women in peril, because that is all they will ever be - harmless fantasies. As such, I will never apologize for my fetish, I will never feel ashamed or guilty for having it, and I will always support the content producers who help feed it.
Well said. Another example would be what they periodically try to pull with video games. "Oh My God, Juniors shooting zombies and aliens with a plasma rifle, he's for certain going to be the next canniblistic serial killer."
I resisted getting Halo3 to play with my son because it is a rated M game. But, I broke down and bought it to check it out. My son's been playing Star Wars Battlefront for a while now and to be honest, the level of violence is about the same and it is a frickken fun game. With cartoons having an average of 400+ violent acts a day, I am thinking what can the harm be?
On Demand in my area has a WB Cartoon channel with tones of great Looney Tunes fare that many of us grew up on. My son recently discovered "Tom and Jerry" and loves it. He especially laughed when in one instance Tom's skeleton was pulled right out of his skin. After they stared at each other for a moment in shock, Tom's furry skin and the skeleton quickly merged back together again so that they could continue the futile chase of Jerry (the mouse).
I made a stupid dad remark of--that's gotta hurt, to which my son replied---"it's just a cartoon, nobody really gets hurt." At which point, I showed him my Halo3 acquisition and we had a killer gaming weekend!!!
One more thing on this subject of games training kids to be killers. Penn and Tellers Bullshit did a whole episode about that with compelling arguments.
Specifically, go to about the 26 or 27 minute mark. This sequence shows previous unedited footage of what happened after a video game playing child was given the opportunity to "safely" fire a real assault weapon. The whole episode is great, but this moment effected me the most.
Well, in any case, video games are not training our youth to be killers---it's simply bullshit.
listen, i am NOT against this fetish. i have it, ffs. i embrace it, but i sometimes have reservations about it. it comes down to men using women's bodies as a battleground for power and control. i have no problem with that. its what my fetish is all about. but at the same time, it just bugs me that my concerns are summarily dismissed. after all, im just a girl....what the fuck do i know. right? i think if some of you were women, you could maybe empathize with my point of view. but you don't. i've read enough smug self-satisfied justification now. this thread is off limits for me.
Paul---In that Bullshit episode I linked to there was some comments that you might find interesting.
Imagine video games had been invented 100 years before high-school football. There were video game teams, cheerleaders, etc. Everyone was happy. Then, suddenly, high-school football is introduced. Now kids are out on the field, in a real contact situation, including sprained ankles, broken limbs, concussions and sever head trauma. Except, it's not like in the fantasy video game--it is real. Now, the roles are reversed---in a world where fake violent video games were the norm, how would parents react to this new violent, yet real sport. From 1931--2007, 665 kids died playing high school football. Now that is reality.
Maybe to shed a new direction or point of focus or view.
I have been into the fetish for years.. arguably beginning with original Halloween, and a few others. The whole sex and death thing.
Yet I have always been able to keep the real from the fake.
What some of the ladies have been trying to say to the producers, and NOT getting it across it seems.
With what we share, what you do with your business.
Along with the tragic things, going on in th real world.
As a PRODUCER WHAT if anything is a line you will not cross, in what you depict being done to women, in the fetish.
If the answer is NOTHING .. as long as someone is paying for it.
You will happily do anything to a woman, no matter how degrading or even barbaric.
You may not realize it, but YOU have crossed that desensitized line.
If there is nothing you can think of, that is out of bounds...
It does not matter how many times, you may say, but I still respect women. THAT is crap, you don't !!!
The ladies on many of these forums, are being shocked by the LIMP, and often backhanded ways, the guys are hiding behind the fantasy.
They bring up real concerns about what they see being done to women in real life.
To be shouted down or told, yes that is appalling. I WILL BE FILMING MY OWN VERSION of it this week, to be sold shortly.
As much as I enjoy different things in the fetish. There is much that has been going lately, that seems to reinforce or show, just what the ladies have been trying to say.
THEY like it erotic .... sensual, maybe the personal killing.
While more and more it is just forced, vicious, and done for shock value.
Ladies like Kelli, simply are trying to bring to light, the more sadistic, our fetish seems to becoming.The more it parallels and maybe helps feed, the real life violence going on.
It is not being a prude, it is not condemning the fetish.
It is simply trying to get some of us to see, the ladies may like this. Yet they do want to have their likes and tastes taken into consideration as well.
Yet honestly when they do share or speak out. They usually are belittled, talked down to, and left feeling as if they are not respected or that they matter in any way.
Yes, and maybe feeling the outsider, as the guys all pat themselves on the back, and talk about how well the world does it, so be quiet and deal with it.
Sorry so long.. bottom line.... They mainly want to be heard, to see their opinion is given as much consideration as any of the guys. OH and YES they buy this stuff also. So maybe now and again, keep that in mind, and leave out some of the more hardcore elements in a few, and see how they do. You may be surpprised.
Well, Storm9's points are well taken... so much so that they were taken by Pennpaul over to DS and copied there without permission or apology. It appears that plaguerism is alive and well at that other board. Well, hopefully they will learn something from Storm9's post... but I doubt it.
If Kelli and others are concerned that producers are merely doing whatever they think they have to do to women on screen, just to sell videos, this is indeed a valid concern. Of course, sex has been used to sell everything from cookies to corvettes, and I see nothing wrong with that; however, the degrading of women to sell products is a whole 'nother story.
Now, every producer has a choice as to whether or not they draw lines in the sand that they will not step over, and I can only speak for myself as to whether Bluestone has drawn such lines. I have. It is simply a personal choice based upon my personal preferences and I am in no way suggesting that other producers even consider adopting them, since everyone must make their own choices in a free country. These are some of my limits relevant to the issue of the degrading of women:
1. For some reason, I find it erotic to view a sexy woman dying. As to why... well that could be debated forever, but I am comfortable with fantasy female death scenes, and I will continue to film them and make them as sexy as possible;
2. I personally do not find brutal rapes sexy, especially if it is very realistically done. This is a personal choice, but I won't be producing that type of material;
3. I have no interest in filming hard core porn. If simulated sex scenes are considered soft core porn, then I will film such scenes, if they are a natural part of the storyline of a film;
4. I have no interest in brutalizing or degrading a female in film to the extent that they are no longer recognizable as a once beautiful woman. For me, the woman must always be a thing of beauty, not a disgusting corpse.
5. I respect my actresses and will not demand or force them to perform acts on screen that they are not comfortable performing. I accept customs only on the basis that the actress is comfortable with the script beforehand.
Well, those are some of my more major personal limits on the subject of degrading women in film. I don't expect other producers to agree with these limits. After all, they only apply to Bluestone Video Productions. Other producers will set their own limits... or not, but, since this issue was raised, I wanted to make it clear to all concerned that I do indeed have limits to the type of material that I will film.
Blue
Bluestone's Silk Videos - Producer of Sexy Crime Dramas and Superheroine Films featuring HOT actresses!
Thanks for that Blue. Your in Canada, right, so even if you wanted to, Porn is not an option coupled with your material....or maybe that is only in certain Providences.
Ok, here are my limits or actually it is what I do with a few things I don't scattered in.
I take every custom inquiry on a case by case basis. I don't look at things as degrading or harmful because they are just movies. I look at things from a production and sales standpoint.
So lets start. Remember, everything I list here is in terms of fantasy. There is no reason for me to address the reality of anything I shoot for the simple fact that everything I shoot, no matter how over the top, how comical, how realistic, is merely a work of fiction. What's real, can be agreed upon as terrible and really has no place creeping into make believe. We are adults and we can play too without constantly being reminded that bad things are happening around us all the time. I get the NEWS.
RAPE
I will start with this one first. I personally am not a fetishist for fantasy rape. Like most of my movies, I never watch playback once it is edited except to show a scene to a curious model, etc. It is not something I would watch for pleasure. However, like many things I shoot, I enjoy the process of making something that reaches a certain level. In most rape scenes that I have shot, they are slightly passive and low-key. A rape fetishist would probably not be into my productions. I have done one or two scenes that I really thought turned out quite intense and dramatic. My filming style aside, it is quality performances from the actors that is the key. Finding that combination for me is rare, but when I do, I take advantage of the talent of that actress. If she can play a scene a certain way, I will shoot that type of scene.
Now, I am not a rape fetishist company. Though my very first production in 2006 with Paris Kennedy contains incest and rape, both were a key part of the story. In addition, the reason I only shoot it certain ways with certain actresses is I want it to be minimum discomforting to a maximum of brutal. I never ever want a pretty, soft rape scene. While not all of them are good, they are never presented in any way but mentally and physically harmful to the victim. While I want the rape fetishist to enjoy the scene, I want the travesty of the situation to be presented for the sake of my movie. Bad things happen in my movies and rape, on some occasions is the precursor to subsequent violence and death.
There is no doubt that I make movies that have all kinds of moods. Rape will never be a laughing matter but I guess the viewer can laugh of they want, just like we laugh in-between takes. That is just the way it is.
TORTURE
Actually, I have done tortures since the Ruemorgue days, but all were pretty simple sequences. It really has been this year that I have done more, mostly for customs. The only thing I won't do is something so gory that it would make it un-sexy. Yes, to many a soaking wet girl suspended over a puddle of water with mild to medium bruising getting electrocuted, beat or whipped is sexy. You ask, what would make it un-sexy. A torch. Causing burns is not something I want to do. The makeup work would be cool to try and maybe for mainstream I would. But, this is fetish. I still want her to look hot. Just like Bluestone, while we have different interpretations on what can look sexy, I want her to still be sexy. So the torture videos are just that, sexy girls being tortured. Obviously, everything I shoot ends in death, so when I refer to a torture video, it comprises one element, long or short of a full-length movie that may include other taboo elements.
Oh, and my fetish is not torture either. I like making things look like they are happening like in one of my recent releases the girl was beat with a rusty old hammer. You could hear the metal and bone connecting with each swing. Of course, the hammer was foam. For me, it is a challenge to make things look like they are happening that are not. I enjoy that.
In addition, being grounded in reality and knowing that these are just really hot girls in makeup...I really enjoy the beauty of most women and body-types. I cast the type that sell the best, however.
YOUNG
I cast for girls from 18-40's. Most of my actresses are around 24-27. Some look pretty young. I do scenarios that take advantage of that youthful look, however their stated or implied characters age is always 18 or over. That is the way it is. But, it is a free world, and people see what they want to see.
INCEST
Don't care for it, sells good.
PREGNANT
If a model is pregnant and asks for work, I am going to help as I always do if I have the studio funds. That is how I roll. I help out all my actresses if I can when they need work if I have work for them. Only twice has this come up. I have released two out of 360+ movies with this as part of the condition of the character simply because it was the real condition of the actress. Sells amazingly well. If I were really into it, I would do way more. But, I am not. It is just something I did and if asked I would help again. Customs--maybe. No one has asked. It would probably depend if I had a model. I know of one girl, that will be ready to shoot in about 6 months from now.
Hmm, I cannot think of any other taboo thing that I do. Oh, better cover this.
PORN
I like porn.
Ok, there. So, I will not burn someone to death. I have been asked but so far have not wanted to do a skull-fucking video. I don't like anal, but will be doing one next month and will do if asked, but, ish, not really excited about it. I don't like poop. Oh, I will not do POOP. Fake obviously, but iouuu. I am sure there are other things, but mostly they are non-sellers anyhow. Oh, I am doing something with brains this month. That should be interested. I am thinking some color of jello....watch for it. :-)
So, there you have two versions of producers' limits, both presented in a very honest and frank way, and both have merit, since, like any type of art, there should be freedom of artistic expression. I may like Dali, but others may think it's crap. Both opinions should be accepted as that person's personal preference, which does not mean that either position is necessarily right or wrong.
In answer to the 'why I don't do porn' question, John. I am in Canada, but that's not why I don't mix hard core porn with the death fetish. If I was into that, I would do it, since I firmly believe that Dr. Don's case will be overturned on appeal. In my considered opinion, the law of Canada does not differ from the law of the U.S.
Oh, you brought up some more issues that I didn't think about. Here they are (again only my personal limits):
I don't do incest. I don't do the killing of pregnant women. I don't do death scenes with underage, or apparently underage, girls. I don't include excrement in the scenes. I think that's about it
Now, I'm sure other producers have their limits too. Anyone else care to share?
Blue
Bluestone's Silk Videos - Producer of Sexy Crime Dramas and Superheroine Films featuring HOT actresses!
I don't see where anyone is asking you to feel guilty about anything.
Did I miss something in all of this debate??
For Kelli:
Your opinion is desired.
I am a very well educated woman and a condescending pat on the head by the boys pisses me off as much as I am sure it does you.
I too stand by my work. It is erotic and I am willing to accept that fact that some people will call it porn.
I have no proof that it causes people to act violently, but I DO have proof that it has caused some to NOT act violently because I have fans who have told me so.
As for Paul's notion that this whole subject is "stupid":
If you find the subject stupid Paul then why did you contribute to the thread so much?
Quite frankly I think you jumped in because my question was in fact not stupid but rather interesting and allowed people to offer diverse opinions, which is what a form is supposed to be. It also allowed you to promote your work, which is something all of us producers do here at FF. That is and of itself is just fine.
You are a man who does not like to be insulted, and I respect that.
You however need to respect that others also don't like to be insulted.
)
