The Allegations and Arguments Continue - KHP and Don

[bellystabs]

I don't know, it (Pennpual's post) could very well be an edited post...

Who edited Pennpaul's post? Pennpaul? You can ask him. If not him, then who?

It seems quite incredulous to me that you consider that someone in here edited Pennpaul's post, but you won't consider the head stooge at DS of editing CP-related posts over there.

You may be in danger of falling off Dalila's sexy man list if you use "stooge number one" as a witness on your behalf. As proven in other threads still archived in here:

1. Geno defended a DS member of cyber-threats and suspended Dalila for two weeks when she had proof of the source of the threat and called Geno on it.

2. He changed a post in between a flurry of posts in the copyright thread, and then he later erased the post to hide his guilt. But he was caught red-handed.

3. Blue discovered his own posts were edited and later deleted on DS. That malicious editing was used to flame Paul in Blue's name and created many hard feelings between them.

4. Blue received email(s) from Geno that proved the conspiracy between stooge one and stooge two when stooge two and stooge three were attacking Paul and disrupting FF.

5. Geno called actresses cunts and whores and then banned their supporters when they defended the women.

6. For months Geno defended a DS member who was a known cyber-stalker and was already banned from PP and FF; and then Geno accused the female victim of bringing it on herself.

The list goes on and on, so in my opinion, you do yourself no favors by defending Geno or using him as a credible witnness on your behalf. The asinine little mall-cop finds great pleasure in playing sock puppet, or mariantette puppeteer, or instigator, or malicious manipulator.

And on a positive note as you and Paul continue to post your thoughts, I am glad Paul never resorted to vulgar name-calling and I am glad you have stopped doing that. I am also glad you quit telling other members to "seek help" for the "sick shit" they fantasized about. If you want to play psychiatrist, I think Geno makes a much better patient for you to diagnose. I think he is a danger to himself and others, so if you could verify that and revoke his gun permit, and put him in a 72-hour hold, I would appreciate that very much. The streets and the forums would be much safer in my opinion.

[Dalila di Capri]

A word about Geno

Via email he is one of the nicest people in the world.

I understand he is like this over the phone as well but I wouldn't know.

At DS and other forums he is of course what we have all seen.

I was never in favor of banning Geno from this site for the following reason:

I have seen in this latest argument behavior that is at least as bad as anything Geno has done.

The name calling, badgering, beating dead horses, and so forth is so far from sexy that...

Well yes from a girl's point of view "The Stooges" do come to mind.

I recall Don saying some very strong things to Grave Dancer, but I also recall Don apologizing for them.

I recall Peter doing the same thing.

It is funny how quick we are to judge.

At first with Grave Dancer I thought I was dealing with someone who was improperly quoting a musical reference.

When it turned out that he was trying to explain beauty in terms of his fantasy by using the "Tristan Chord" as an example of somethign universally accepted as beautiful now, but thought to be ugly 150 years ago, I realized that I too had been a bit hasty and I apologize for that.

(Honestly Grave Dancer at first I thought you were talking about the suspension in Butterfly at the end of the opera and that you had the chord wrong Once I saw you reference Tristan I understood what you were saying!)

What I have yet to see, unless I have missed it, is Paul apologize for his end in the preposterous feud. Perhaps I just didn't see that, but I have seen Don apologize a number of times.

Something I consider very un-sexy is someone who must always be right, no matter what it costs, no matter how many friends are lost or bridges are burned.

No matter whose side we may be on in the great war between the FX masters and their 78 stabs (that's 39 twice) can we not see the tedium in all of this?

Should we not instead wish Don good luck in having his case overturned and be thankful that he was NOT also convicted of anything related to CP or corrupting a minor?

Can we not also accept the fact that Paul, though at times about as cuddly as a garlic sandwich, is a major force on the erotic horror scene?

To me whoever apologizes first and stays apologized is sexy. Whoever does not is not.
The same goes for any side takers.

Geno haters are not any better in my book than Don haters or Paul haters, or PennPaul haters. It's all the same nonsense.

Let this go for goodness sake.

[kevin67]

I agree with Dalila. As a moderator on this board, I feel we should all go home and let this drop. The only decision concerning this case lies with the Crown, not anyone else. At this time we should agree to pull together and support Dr. Don and show a united front.

As for Geno, there is no need to hash up his past conduct, good or bad.

May I wish everyone an early Happy New Year

[Dalila di Capri]

Dalila, for whatever reason you have decided to single me out as well as the obvious people and not sure why. All the others engaged in name calling and very abusive behavior and I have refused to resort to that. Others seem to be able to appreciate that but you. By your own standards, I should be the sexiest man alive but some how instead you want to keep trying to make it look like I am being unreasonable and every one else has been just fine. And not to mention throwing a few insulting jabs. I won't do that but I will stand my ground with you. I certainly hope this has nothing to do with me not wanting to work with you on that film. If it is, you are taking it too personally. You yourself have said many times that our styles are different. I don't believe it to be the reason you usually mention but it is different. I won't argue with you there. So it seems to me we would clash anyway. But I will tell you, if you wish to continue to write something bad about me every time some one writes something positive, well to put it in your own words...that's not very sexy.

Paul I really don't worry about who thinks I am sexy and who does not.

My customers are the ones who get to decide that. (And my "non customer fan" Grave Dancer)

But you seem to be truly hurt by my comments so I want to address that:
I do think that you have been a bit more extreme than Don. That is absolutely true.

There are several times that the whole issue has been put to bed, and you have re-opened it.

I did notice some very noble behavior on your part.

I was very impressed when you offered to contribute to Don's legal fund. I was impressed when you tried to get past the first part of the feud a few days ago.

What really confused me however was this:

You were saying that John Matrix was attacking you at DS.

I said

"Paul please. I HATE going to DS. If you are being attacked by John Matrix please post that evidence here."

Now unless I completely missed something the material I read posted here that came from DS showed no sign of the attacks you were talking about that caused you to re-start the feud here at FF.

So to me it seemd as though you were badgering Don with arcane points about his case.

Really who cares whether the police formally dropped charges against Don regarding corrupting a minor? The fact that they found no way to convict him of it proves that there was not much to the claim. If they could have convicted him they would have.

I am the first to say that I would not have you, or Don , or John M, or Dennis, or Blue or the Bella Morte producers or anyone else suffer what Don has at the hands of the Canadian authorities.

Now obvioulsy from your perspective you feel attacked by Don, and to some extent attacked by me.

For my part I apologize for anything I said that offended you.

I cannot speak for Don.

But you can speak for yourself. Are you prepared to see that you have been a willing party in perpetuating a very nasty flame war? Are you prepared to agree to disagree even if you are having to simply drop some issues where from your perspective you feel attacked or insulted?

Paul think about what I do in this industry:

Your face is on the line. You are a producer and you have groups trying to shut you down.

I have that same weight upon me and on top of that literally my body is on the line. It is there to be scrutinized. "Is Dalila still in shape? Hmmn the ass isn't quite as hot as it use to be..."Or there is the whole "Dalila is a whore" dissertation at DS.

Men have sent me emails offering to cut my breasts for real, and I have dealt with them cooly and in a professional manner. (My hubby just wants to kill them so I have the added pressure of keeping that from happening.)

So I do a job similar to yours, and a job similar to your models at the same time.
Sure I have a lower overhead than you do, but aside from that I have the pressures that go with both professions.

One must grow a thick skin, no?

I am a very emotionally tough, thick skinned woman and if my tongue lashed you just a bit too much I am very sorry. I really work to keep it in check compared to what I am capable of saying.

You however have been very tough on Don. Even if you don't see it that way many others do.

Even if you think he is 100% wrong and you are 100% correct you would be a very sexy man in this situation if you were to just say" It's not worth fighting about any more."

Baci

[bellystabs]

"Paul please. I HATE going to DS. If you are being attacked by John Matrix please post that evidence here."

I don't see any need to post more of gesus' self-righteous, hateful, and inflammatory drivel over here. It seems to me that was the catalyst to resurrect this debate in the first place. He is geno's disciple; let him poop in the DS sandbox. Like Kevin said, let's just drop it.

[Dalila di Capri]

Dalila,

Every one has dropped this but you. After I talked with you on another thread, I deleted that post you quote so as to drop it myself. Especially because you said you were just doing and saying things to be funny. I see now you didn't mean that. I think you need to take your own advise and that of every one else's and let it go.

This has become complete nonsense.

Paul I responded to your other post first.
I responded to your previous post on this thread afterward.

I really have give up expecting you to take responsibility for the things you say and the fights you start.

Your problems with Don are your problems, not mine.
The longer you comment upon them the longer you open yourself up to be criticized by other members of this forum.

The notion that I am now the one keeping a fight going that you have relished and thrived upon-and bored others to tears over- for the past four days is pathetically laughable. If however you are not man enough to accept responsibility for your part in the conflict and you want to blame your little woes on me, then by all means go right ahead.

Bellystabs I said what I said to offer Paul an opportunity to bring me the staments that he claims were made against him at DS a few days ago so that he could re-start a fight with Don.
I certainly don't want a fight with you...and I am more than happy not to see any of this nonsense at FF.

Nevertheless I must present Paul's exact case against Don back to Paul.

If these attacks were made by John Matrix over the past few days at DS then Paul please present them. If they were not then I stand by my statement that you started this fight over again when it was resolved.

I would like this to be my last statement on the subject, but if attacked I too will stand my ground.

[Bluestone]

Good Morning, Everyone! It is a new day, and soon to be a New Year! I have stated this before, and I will state this again. It is time to move on, but not because things haven't been settled, but because they have.

This discussion cleared the air on a matter that was started on DS, was not properly dealt with on that forum, had been festering far too long, and needed the FF free speech forum to be aired and then put to bed. Geno (and I'll speak about my friend later in this post) has often given me well-meaning advice about how to run a forum and has complained about me banning him from FF; however, his banning of Paul from DS during the postings at the heart of this debate was the totally wrong way to deal with the issue. This was made worse by Geno's deletion of every posting that was ever made by Paul on DS. Talk about extreme measures. That is why I will NOT run this forum in this manner. It can cause far-reaching effects. This is not Geno-bashing, just a statement of fact. Please read on.

There doesn't always have to be a winner in every discussion here or anywhere else. Apologies are not required just because someone states an opinion or takes a stand that doesn't agree with that of another member. It's nice when it happens, and when the board rules of civility are broken, it can be enforced; however, I have reviewed Paul's postings, which may be seen as caustic, but never amounted to name-calling. I am not seeking an apology from Paul. Don, Peter, Dalila, and perhaps others have apologized, and that is noted and appreciated.

Like I said before, points were made by both parties, and these points were valid points. Not everyone has to support Don in his fight, but I have a real stake in it, being a Canadian producer. So, I will be supporting Don financially. I will also be ensuring that Paul continues to feel that he is a respected and appreciated member of this community, and that he is free to state his opinions on FF, whether the rest of us agree with them or not.

Finally, I agree with Dalila that I have had many, many friendly exchanges with Geno. Like many of us, he has a persona on DS, unlike his email persona. We are rivals, and have been years before I started FF. We understand each other quite well, and will not take any BS from each other. But, our rivalry is not hatred. Neither of us hate each other, and I would hope that that's the same with Paul and Don. Sometimes, people just disagree, and that's okay... as long as it is done in a civil and not a hateful manner.

It is a new day, and soon to be a New Year. I don't want to leave this year without putting a few matters behind me. I want to look towards a positive year for all of us, and for this community. So, I hereby wish to leave this year with a few apologies. I may have hurt people with my comments this year. I may have left the impression that I hate some people on the forums. That is not the way that I want to enter 2010. So, in the spirit of new beginnings, I wish to apologize to any people on this forum or on DS who I may have offended with any of my comments. I also wish to apologize specifically to Geno, Pennpaul, Jafa, John Matrix, Dr. Don and Paul. I wish all of you all the best for 2010... a new beginning for our community!

Blue

[Dalila di Capri]

Beautifully said Blue.

There really no right or wrong to such a subjective argument.

Clearly there were strong feelings on both sides that needed to be expressed.

I think you desreve a great deal of respect for allowing it to happen and not choosing sides.

I would like to once again apologize to Paul for offending him, which clearly I did do whether I meant to or not.

If this debate really is over and it is time to move on I am very happy to do so.

Baci

[Dr Don]

1. You don't know what you are talking about.

2. You are not winning my respect.

3. I suggested seeking help out of concern, not as an insult. If I meant to insult it would have been worded more strongly, of that I assure you. But I don't think your comments about Geno are out of concern. I think you are indirectly insulting Geno and me, while ignoring your own hypocrisy.

4. Using disparaging and disrespectful remarks aimed at senior members of this community is offensive. Pennpaul is a retired military vet. and deserves more respect than you offer young man. Where I come from I was taught to respect my elders or I wore the back of a man's hand. It's unfortunate that you never experienced that kind of teaching and attitude adjustment. I am glad I did and I recognise it's value. Especially in a society filled with mouthy girly men like we have today.

5. Since you have no respect for me or Pennpaul, and I cannot offer you the attitude adjustment you so desperately are in need of, I offer an expression of my free speech.

I don't know, it (Pennpual's post) could very well be an edited post...

Who edited Pennpaul's post? Pennpaul? You can ask him. If not him, then who?

It seems quite incredulous to me that you consider that someone in here edited Pennpaul's post, but you won't consider the head stooge at DS of editing CP-related posts over there.

You may be in danger of falling off Dalila's sexy man list if you use "stooge number one" as a witness on your behalf. As proven in other threads still archived in here:

And on a positive note as you and Paul continue to post your thoughts, I am glad Paul never resorted to vulgar name-calling and I am glad you have stopped doing that. I am also glad you quit telling other members to "seek help" for the "sick shit" they fantasized about. If you want to play psychiatrist, I think Geno makes a much better patient for you to diagnose. I think he is a danger to himself and others, so if you could verify that and revoke his gun permit, and put him in a 72-hour hold, I would appreciate that very much. The streets and the forums would be much safer in my opinion.

[Dr Don]

Once again I find myself having to say this.

It is always easy to sit in judgement from a position of comfort, not being the target of falsehoods, assumptions, misrepresentations, lies, false conclusions, opinions laced with damaging innuendos, that are repeated over and over again by the same person for no other purpose than to maliciously spread disinformation and defame me.

I am not here to go around and around with KHP. I am here to set the record straight and to continually request that KHP stop his defamation and move on because I do not want his lies left unchallenged and burned into someones mind to the point where the only memory of this incident is KHP's lies.

I also do not want a judge saying to me someday, "Well Mr. Smith, why didn't you protest what he was saying? By not protesting Mr. Smith, I must assume it didn't really matter to you?" That's what I want to avoid. So it does matter to me.

Sorry Kevin67. I edited out my last comments since I realized it was someone else that I should have named, what I edited out had been stated in error.

Blue: Your sanitized evaluation of KHP's opinions ignores that fact that a direct insult is not what this discussion has been about. Name calling is "sticks and stones" stuff. Opinions can result in liability in a civil action. Name calling is a minor issue, and I can find a lot of name calling done by KHP directly and indirectly through his use of innuendo.

Presenting KHP's opinions in your sanitized way is offensive because it shows insensitivity and indifference to the real harm those types of allegations would do to anyone, including yourself, whether they were true or false.

If KHP had said something like: "Gee DrDon, those were bad allegations, I am sure glad they had no credibility otherwise you would have faced more charge."

But that's not what this was about. This was about KHP making CP allegations on DS in April 2008, then trying to Smeagol Gollum his way out of it by claiming to have only said something a little less severe, while bringing it up over and over again, forcing me to protest and set the record straight. KHP's has added embellishments and innuendo to the allegations and keeps bring it up over and over again for no other reason than to cause me mental suffering and anguish. You FAIL to recognize that as an abuse of freedom of expression and you fail to see it as a deliberate act of defamation.

What well meaning, reasonable and rational person would continue to do this over and over again when asked to stop because it is causing them serious grief?

Then for you to make a non specific "blanket" apology after insulting me by saying KHP didn't do anything to me, is offensive.

Others might see it as a great gesture, but they are not the one's on the receiving end.
But Guess who will defend them when it happens to them someday....ya...John Matrix, DrDon, Pennpaul, and Jafa, the defenders of the innocent, while the rest of you sit back and go....oh my god...another flame war....and then give your advice like Job's comforters did in the story told in the Book of Job right out of the bible. And Job's comforters were wrong. They were errogant hypocrites.

[Bluestone]

Don,

I entirely disagree with your position that you and your friends are the defenders of the innocent; although, I do agree that you must feel like Job as a result of your court case, but not as a result of these forum discussions. In my book, opinions, stated as opinions, are still free speech and not actionable libel or defamation. Paul has been consistent in stating that he read that there were allegations involving a minor that brought your case to the attention of the authorities. Jafa's document confirms this. Pennpaul has admitted in quotes posted here and in recent posts on DS that once a minor is mentioned, he considers this to be an allegation of CP. It appears to me that is where the CP allegation originated. The evidence has been deleted, but I'm willing to accept this explanation as quite plausable. It does nothing to defame you that I have accepted this version of the facts of what happened on DS, especially taking into account that my own posts there were altered on DS around about that time. You cannot depend on anything posted on that board, so I think it's foolishness to judge Paul on the basis of posts that do not exist and, when they did exist, may have been altered just as mine were.

The Bible also says not to judge or you will be judged, and, of course, you know that, because you have a divinity degree. You have judged Paul to be a cruel, malicious person who is out to defame and destroy you, but you tell Paul to seek help, because he thinks that you are maliciously trying to destroy him and damage his reputation in the community. Should we not simply adjourn these discussions and let the true judge deal with them? I think you have one trial too much on your plate right now. No need to engage in another one here.

Now, if Paul doesn't like my opinions, I will respond to him too. I'm not playing favourites, but you are the one who is now still posting on this thread.

Now, the above references to what happened on DS are historical references only. They do not in any way mean that I did not mean the apology in my earlier post. Geno and I have put the Bluestone altered post issue behind us. I no longer blame him for that, because it was an extremely stressful time, and he could very well have been thinking that he was editing one of his own posts. It is plausible, after all. I also do not blame Pennpaul for his interpretation of 'minors' and 'CP'. My apology stands.

All of which is respectfully submitted.

Blue

[jafa]

While KHP continues to focus on the non-issue of child involvement, it is obvious from the case history that Don's website was under scrutiny before March 12th, 2000. The child involvement allegations surfaced in September 2000 and were used as a means to invade both Don's house and his brother (in Winnipeg). The case history documents identify the neighbor as well as the neighbor boy who are the source of the allegations. The case history also documents that FACS rejected the allegations and that OPP officials rejected the allegations as they might pertain to Don's children.

It appears that KHP in his relentless pursuit of DrDon has blatantly ignored the case history which contains official and unofficial court documents. The documents cited by KHP are conveniently taken out of context. KHP abets his attacks by demanding evidence to refute him when it is his privilege to view all of the documents and rejections of allegations. And further, KHP rejects the case history documents, some of which he has used to support his position.

My point

PSV, DrDon and his brother were under investigation long before the allegations of child involvement. It appears that Winnipeg took interst and viewed the PSV websites for reasons other than those continually spouted by KHP.

[Dr Don]

Blue: You gave more of the same ole same ole ignoring the obvious. Opinions can be actionable when laced with deliberate falsehoods and innuendo that are clearly meant to cause damage to another person.

Once again, free speech is not a licence to defame others, unless you are KHP with a badge from Blue.

[Bluestone]

Thank you for your contribution to this discussion, Jafa, and for providing the information on your website, so that all who are interested in this case can educate themselves. This point was not raised earlier, but it makes sense. Cops often use allegations such as these to obtain search warrants. These warrants sometimes are limited to a search for specific items, but some are quite general. Once computers etc. are seized, further charges may be laid based upon what the search discloses.

Blue

[Dr Don]

JAFA: It's so obvious from the case history I don't know how all of these experts on my case missed that simple truth which well stated at the beginning of the case history with supporting evidence. It proves Blue's statement wrong in which he defends KHP above. Thanks for your comments. You got it right.