Shooting Fans- Do you want SFX or Not?

[smudger]

There seem to be a lot of clips posted up on Niche or PAP which are shooting, but on which the words "No blood or Wounds" appear, as they are merely play-acting.

Obviously, they sell, or they wouldn't be getting made. But the question is- would they sell better if the producers added even the most rudimentary effects- perhaps just lipstick dots- to show where the bullets hit?

I personally never buy these no-effects clips. But I would if effects were added. What is your opinion on this? Could producers sell more, and could they perhaps even do parallel versions one with effects and the other without, to satisfy all tastes?

[Nightposter]

To me it depends on how well the deaths are acted.
I've seen some shootings where the victim acted so well it didn't matter if I saw blood.
Then there is the opposite, the chick who can't act her way out of a paper bag, but she's covered in blood and "stuff".
Effects if done well, are Ok, but usually I see them over done.

[random]

My personal choice is similar to Nightposter.

It's all about the acting, not the effects. It's a fantasy and the amount of blood (whether it's realistic or over-the-top" can be distracting and detrimental to the scene. No amount of SFX can hide a lack of talent.

My purchases include those with and without SFX but those I find the most entertaining have little or no blood. There can be "too much of a good thing", but, as always it's a personal choice.

[kevin67]

I don't buy a clip that doesn't show some blood. It doesn have to be gory, but just enough blood to show the actual location of the wound. So, I guess I am in agreement with Smudger.

On the other hand, you get to see more female deaths when you shoot a bloodless video. You can change the costume every so often, and include some nude scenes. You really do not have to clean the model up for the next scene. However, the actress/model has to act out the scene in a very convincing matter, but that is true even when blood effects are used.

I nam hoping that we get more opinions as well as votes on this.

[Templar]

I've bought a couple clips where there was no blood because the actress was seriously hot. I would've preferred SOME blood but I'd rather have a hot actress without blood over a mediocre looking girl with blood. I prefer a small amount of blood, like a rivulet of blood over blood spattering the whole area. With knives and arrows it especially looks weird to me not to have blood.

[ozzie147]

Easy answer for me, no blood, no interest,
Ozzie

[sateliteFF]

There must be at least a dot where the bullet went in.
I think 4 elements must be included before I consider a buy.

1: Hot actress
2: Breast shot (Fatal)
3: Wound details (FX) Some blood, not buckets.
4: Good acting (Hard to know before a buy)

Satelite

[tummyshooter]

Even a good squib effect is not that appealing. It doesen't have to be a Sam Peckinpah garden hose effect, but if you shoot someone in the guts or boobs, blood is going to keep coming out.

[JohnM]

Interesting topic and a great example of how wildly diverse the audience it.

I can tell you based on actual sales, it is both.

In fact, there is a lot of customer cross-over.

While I am sure there are buyers that will only purchase shootings with effects, there seem to be a great many more (that are not commenting), that also enjoy the non-effect shootings.

All of my gun-fun series has sold equal to and in many cases more then full effect shootings. Conversely, all of my full effect shootings have sold equal to or more then my non effect shootings. I would call it even--but I think the edge goes to full effect simply because of a couple massive projects I have done that broke all sales records.

This poll is great, but at least based on my experience, does not reflect actual trends.

But, for me personally, I enjoy doing them both. The customer who wants to see the girl die 40-120 fantastic ways in various sexy outfits in 24-30 minutes with no effects, might be willing to sacrifice the effect. Those same folks, many of them, cross right over and get the regular ones to.

It's a very diverse crowd for the most part--many, I think, adjust there own fetish interest to allow for producer variance in product offering and for what makes good sense financially for them.

JohnM

[smudger]

Thanks to everyone for joining in the poll, keep it up! John M, I know you sell a lot of your "gun fun" clips, but I think you might see how many more you will be able to sell if you did even simple wound effects- just dots maybe, I know it would be impracticable to do your full effects on clips of that length. A lot of people, obviously, like myself, need to see the bullet hits, not just the acting. Put that sort of thing in and I will certainly buy them fast as they come out!

Agree with NP and Random, that acting is most important, but a good actress with wounds will always beat a good actress without, in our game... won't she?

[JohnM]

John M, I know you sell a lot of your "gun fun" clips, but I think you might see how many more you will be able to sell if you did even simple wound effects- just dots maybe, I know it would be impracticable to do your full effects on clips of that length. A lot of people, obviously, like myself, need to see the bullet hits, not just the acting. Put that sort of thing in and I will certainly buy them fast as they come out!

Agree with NP and Random, that acting is most imp

Actually, I did to that as a custom and test. It sold the same.

Of course, you have to consider this. With a gun fun, I can shoot for about 1 hour, pay 1 hours worth of model time and get from 40-120 scenes.

On the hybrid gun fun with bullet hit effects, I was able to shoot 9 scenes in about 2 hours, which of course cost twice as much.

I made the same amount---but it "cost" me twice as much.

I am sure you probably know this, but almost all of my gun funs have digital effects added in post. While there is no "hole", there are excellent muzzle and blood hit and blood spray effects. On some, I even motion track a hit point.

While it take me one hour to shoot a typical gun fun, it actually takes just as long, often longer to edit.

Here is a sample with added effects that represents a typical gun fun. Time those scenes buy much variety, costume changes and girls, time 40-120 different scenes all for about $14 when released and that is probably why they are so popular.

http://pkfstudios.com/videos/gun_fun_sample.wmv

You may have seen gun play videos from other producers, but no one does them like I do.

A large preview with many many scenes can be found here:
http://www.darkfetishnet.com/JohnM/

Of course, I love my regular ones too. "Temptation to Kill" has outsold any other shooting released this year:
http://nicheclips.com/shop.php?store_id=61

Thanks,
JohnM

[Pennpaul]

There are at least 3 levels of shooter results

1. No blood, wound or bang effects (Some customs are requested this way)
2. Bullet impacts, minimum gunfire and minimal blood
3. Full CGI or squib effects, dramatic bullet holes, and dripping blood.

Advertising is very difficult. Honesty is required for num 1, above.

However, given the number of shooting clips and sales, most customers have failed to discover what I believe are better than average clips. I will be so bold to name a few of my favorites

1. IF I CAN't HAVE YOU - no nudity but blow-thru CGI F/X
2. WHO's YOUR DADDY - a surprise pussy shot from a beat up assassin
3. TARGET PRACTICE 2 - wherein Debbie D appears as target and shooter in the same frames.
4. CIA ASSASSIN: FIRST CONTRACT - which is a longer story line that opens with an assassination of Cold Fish and ends with Debbie D taking sniper shots while sunbathing on a canadien island. This video is a composite of several videos from which the photos are derived.

I am sure that other producers can name their favorites as well.

4P

[tommygun]

I think this is a great idea... The producers know the most about the best films they've done. Hank and I will discuss what we think are the best shooting films we've done and post the references. (and the one we are just about ready to release, The Lonely Road, at Rue Morgue will probably be one of them...

By the way, I've just purchased three out of the four that Paul mentioned because I missed them at the time!

[WAVE]

From W.A.V.E.'s standpoint, our best shooting DVDs would be the original Perforations, Perforations 2001 Part 1 & 2, and Lethal Ladies 1 with The Agreement right behind. All can be checked out at our website.

Gary

[smudger]

Yeah, looking at getting these Gary as I'm not in the dreaded UK at the moment! So maybe they'll arrive. Pity they're not on download as the post seems to take forever to reach Europe....